William again finds out no one will help him with this class assignemnt. Hee asked any of the students politely and no one gave him an answer.

"Yes, but," Eino engaged in conversation with the fiery Ravenclaw girl and the Slytherin prefect, "You can't fix something without listing all of its faults first." He adjusted his seat so that he could face both of them without having to twist his torso and injure himself. "That's like trying to heal someone without a proper diagnoses."

Yeah, that's right. There's a real Ravenclaw in the building now.

"In addition to that, he," Eino gesture to the Slytherin prefect, "did, although indirectly, list some ways in which the formula could be improved." He couldn't remember everything the boy had said but hopefully he had correctly understood the few parts he managed to hear. "He mentioned that one of its faults is the fact that it uses fractions, so we should find a way to use whole numbers instead. Another problem he pointed out was how the equation treats these extraterrestrial beings as humans, and won't consider any other life forms. A way to fix that might be to start by studying the planet itself, its characteristics, etc. I heard just a moment ago that a different planet is significantly hotter than Earth, so a human like us could not inhabit in it. Of course this equation would not work in that unless we took the excessive heat it is exposed to into consideration. It would be very difficult, but it is a way of improving it..."

Alex smiled at the Ravenclaw boy who had agreed with him. It was just common sense, no? If there was no proof that the equation worked, then it was all just nonsense, right? He was pretty positive that was how equations worked.

He looked around and noticed William sitting nearby, looking rather down. Since William had been so nice to include him in the Muggle Studies assignment, he turned to the boy and smiled. "What do you think William? Myself and....this guy," he said, biting his lip awkwardly and looking apologetically at the boy whose name he did not know, "...both think that the equation doesn't work, cause if it HAD, we'd have found aliens by now. What about you?" he asked.

Alex & William
 

Eino looked over his shoulder to his right and left but there was no one behind. Who was the boy smiling at? Him? Oh, well, here it goes... Eino smiled back, forcefully and awkwardly. It looked more a face someone would make if they had tasted and smelled something foul, but to Eino it was a smile.

The smiley Hufflepuff boy then proceeded to engage in conversation with a Gryffindor, during which he mentioned Eino, but didn't seem to know his name. "My name's Eino." He briefly interrupted their conversation in hopes of joining it. "I wonder if they use magic to hide themselves like we do to hide from Muggles." He shared with Alex and the Gryffindor boy, as an option as to why these aliens would be unfindable. If it worked for wizards it probably worked for aliens, too. No?

" You know I agree with both of you" William told Alex. " I do not beleive in Aliens" William said to Alex. " I am not sure what the other boy's name is either" Willaim sighed.

" my name is Willaim Starr" he introduced himself to the boy." Hi Eino" William smiled. " Interesting magic to hide them being aliens" William said to Eino. "Actually, I think there would be a lot of problems on the planets for any human or in this case, alien to live" William explained to Eino and Alex.

After hearing the arguments proposed around her, Zara felt like she had to say more. "I still don't think it works. Like I said earlier, it's simply a ground basis or foundation to say that alien civilizations do exist in the universe so we are not alone in this world." Looking around to see if anyone disagreed with that, Zara continued, "And since professor had said earlier that what's important in this equation aren't the factors or the numbers. It's important because it exists. This merely tells us that, again, we are not alone."

She grinned, "Any objections?" She wanted to argue. Okay, fine. Discuss sounds better. But really, a good argument would do her good. A debate perhaps. But it seems that everyone seemed to agree that the Drake equation doesn't give anything but a load of waffle.

"You can't fix something without listing all of its faults first. That's like trying to heal someone without a proper diagnoses." Who the heck was this guy? Making a face, Ryden sat still as he talked, reluctantly giving him credit for saying his mind. The more he talked, however, the more she had to hold her tongue. She also remembered what he had said earlier, and turned the hufflepuff boy who had wanted proof and who was currently talking to another little kid who looked absolutely lost. Hmm. "But that's the POINT - it DOESN'T work. Now we have to try and fix it, pipsqueak," she pointed out and then turned back to Eino.

Once he was finished, thank Merlin, other people started up and she sighed in frustration. Shaking her head, she raised her voice and started talking - whoever wanted to listen will listen. "About the fractions - there is absolutely no way to use actual whole numbers because then you'd be overlapping everything about a thousand times. What if ALL the planets are hospitable? Or just half? Then you're taking the number of planets into the calculation TWO times, or one and a half times, and then it wouldn't work. You HAVE to use fractions, otherwise this equation will fall apart in the only area where it is even remotely legit - the mathematics," she pointed out, somewhat disappointed that a person with such an eloquent tongue as this couldn't figure that out.

Oh well.

"I kind of agree with you there," and this was said wit much reluctance for Ryden LOVED arguing, "but not about the humans part. It DOESN'T, if you look closely, actually refer to humans - it just always says either "hospitable" or "developed life" but it never mentions the conditions. In this equations, perhaps Mars could have been eligible once," she paused, then eyed her parchment to remind herself what she'd thought of earlier.

Taking a breath, Ryden began, "This equation is only relevant because we’re coming off the assumption that aliens exist and they might have technologies far beyond what we’re aware of. Perhaps they’ve found new wave patterns; perhaps they’ve already found us and surrounded us with technology that prevents us from contacting them?" what? a little sci-fi never hurt anyone. "There are so many things we do not know, so many unknown additions to this equation that it’s impossible to ever get right. Plus, we think we know how life happened - but truly, how did it happen? There was a boom and suddenly there was life? Perhaps there's another unknown fraction that MUST be put in?" she said, and paused again to gather her thoughts - they were all over the place when she got really into something.

"And another thing, specifically about the f thingies in the equations - . It just takes fl for granted. Everything that is in this equation is by OUR definitions; who ever said that they were correct? WE defined that light speed is 300,000 km/s because we said that THIS MUCH," she extended her hands a little bit to show a specific length, "was a km and this time," the brunette clicked her fingers, "was a second. Their definitions might be different and then how would our transmitters and our satellite probe space things be able to detect anything? This equation is purely mathematical and I think it needs a little bit more science… Er, I mean astronomy, in it in order to make it better," Ryden summed up, eying the people around her as if daring them to contradict her.

Of course, the fourth year was well aware that she could occasionally spout junk out of her mouth, but the girl felt very strongly that she was the best when it came to pointing out flaws and criticising.

Nika raised an eyebrow at Zara's explanation. Well it sounded smart. "I think I agree with you Zara!" Zara just said a bit too much for Nika to comprehend all at once. "I don't think the equation is accurate at all." That is what Zara had said right?

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEY. Nika to save the day. Finally someone who had noticed her. Heh.

Zara smiled gratefully at Nika. "Right," then she turned to everybody, "So, the Drake equation doesn't accurately tell us the exact number of alien civilizations that have communicated with us or something like that. But still, it has a reason why it exists and it's also widely accepted by the scientific community." She was beginning to get confused on where she actually stands. ZARA! Agree or disagree?

"But I guess I'm in the middle." *sigh* She's said enough. Maybe she'd be ready to talk more once she's decided on where she really stands. If someone goes to raise up an interesting opinion, she'd present her own opinion to it. Yeah, she'll have to wait. Right now, maybe she'd content herself to listening and understanding.

Ryden's head swiveled to another pipsqueak in the room and she narrowed her eyes. WHY must everybody be so stupid? "YES," the brunette greatly exaggerated the word, "you're quite correct. It's useful in the way that some dude - incidentally, his name was Drake - sat down and thought of a bunch of things that could, if you multiply them, give you how many alien people there are out there," she said, her tone hinting at extremely condescending, forgetting for a moment that the professor was there.

"But that's his opinion. The equation doesn't work. I reckon we've all agreed already that it doesn't - question is WHY. Plus," she added, "we've - well, I have - mentioned before that it does it's purpose of saying that alien things are a part of science or whatever," the brunette stated plainly, raising her eyebrows at the first year.

Honestly people. Keep up.

Blehhhh. Told you Zara, you should've sticked to your first opinion. She raised both her eyebrows at this, incredibly amused. Then Zara nodded slowly. "Like I have said earlier on my first opinion." Okay, that was all she managed. She had contradicted almost everything about the equation earlier. "That is, if you heard it."

WHAT were people not getting here?

Calmly, although she really wanted to hex the midget into next Tuesday for that silly grin on her face, Ryden sighed. "No, I can't say I did. But, if you heard the professor - we're also talking about how we can make this equation BETTER, per say," she pointed out with a pleasant smile. "As in, what would you add? What would you change? Do you have a few opinions on this?" Ryden smiled sweetly.

Ugh. Being sweet was more Bridget's thing than hers.

to the general public...essentially rambling xD
 

Kurumi looked around at everyone and felt like burying her nose in her textbook. She wasn't really sure what the debate going on was hoping to accomplish seeing as it seemed like everyone else was agreeing that the equation was far to vague and had too many variants to actually be worth a hoot.

"Did anyone ever stop to think that THIS is the exact reason why the equation is accepted?" she asked everyone in the general area waving her arms around for emphasis. Although, Kurumi wasn't sure that accepted was the right word. Acknowledged was probably better. She was risking repeating herself, but no one had seemed to have heard her the first time. "This equation is stimulating intellectual curiosity, nothing more seeing as it is based on essentially stabs in the dark," she said firmly. She pointed back at the board. "Essentially all those properties that are listed are based on what we, as humans, consider signs of life and civilization. It makes us feel connected to the universe and helps us see just how connected and integrated we are with the universe." She suddenly felt the urge to stand, but she refrained. "As I see it, it is an elaborate metaphor for hope and chance. To make us feel like out planet isn't alone." Yep, she had definitely said that earlier.

She glanced back at her notes and at the board. "This equation doesn't take time into consideration either....there is nothing that indicated WHEN there were Earth-like planets or intelligent beings." She swallowed. "Also, when it says detectable signals...whose to say that there are planets producing signals that are beyond what we are capable of reading?"

Constellations...please?

Ryden had honestly forgotten the last time she'd been this active in a lesson. The brunette wondered for a moment if there had in fact BEEN any lesson in the past that she'd participated this much in. After a few second's consideration, she decided that there hadn't been and smiled a little. Good job, Professor Antares.

Has anyone ever thought that Antares sounds a little like Entrées? You know, the stuff before meals? Or was she just hungry? Frowning, Ryden tried to remember the last time she'd eaten.

The fourth year was wrenched out of her thoughts as another person spoke up. She listened attentive, growing more and more exasperated with her words - for they contradicted her own, of course - until she said 'metaphor' and Ryden let out a snort. The girl had some ok points, she'd give her that, but...

"I don't think there are metaphors in this field. But you've raised a point that I agree with - we don't know everything, and civilisations may use technology that we are unaware of. They may be more advanced in things that we're complete idiots if we consider the extent of our knowledge," she stated simply, swiveling in her chair to face the younger girl.

At least this one wasn't a moron. A little weird, with her metaphors, but no fool. FINALLY.

WHY WAS THIS GIRL IN RAVENCLAW? She should be in Slytherin. Ugh. But then again, she was a know-it-all. So, guess it counts, right?

Sighing, Zara said, "Well, I have said everything before. If you want me to repeat some of them, very well." Then she remembered all that stuff she'd said before for the sake of the Slythe--Ravenclaw girl. "As I have said earlier, another factor which I would very much want to add here is the number or fraction of how much alien civilizations might re-appear at the same planet. So it's how many times an intelligent alien civilization could possibly occur on planets where it has happened once. Also, other planets in the galaxy have a tendency to be earth-like planets. And the values of these factors can't easily be determined so the equation relies solely on the data collection. It is dependent on the values, and since these values can't be determined, and not even estimated, the equation seems difficult to believe much." RAWR.

And she finally concluded for her sake, "So, again, I'm repeating that the equation can't give an accurate end result or 'N' to us, like most of you all have said. The whole main purpose of this is to show us that alien civilizations do exist and do communicate with us and that they exist." Satisfied? She wasn't agreeing with the equation. She's disagreeing. Zara simply wanted to show that there's still a reason why the equation exists. Plus, it's widely accepted in the scientific community anyways for some reason she doesn't know.

Kurumi's head turned around when she heard someone snort at her. Well, that was a bit uncalled for. They HAD been ASKED to DISCUSS the equation after all.

"I suppose what I mean by metaphor isn't so much from a literature perspective. More of a...means to give scientist some basic ground work in their research in seeking out new life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before." Where had she heard that before? "I dunno, this equation's major flaw is that is takes the stance that the only intelligent life out there is life like ours. That seems to provide a rather narrow window of opportunity in an already abstract concept."
Kurumi then listened as Zara began to speak and she cocked her head to the side. "On the contrary," she said slowly. Kurumi hated confrontation. "I don't think this equation proves anything other than we are capable of calculating results that have a very slim chance of ever being mathematically accurate." Kurumi rubbed the back of her head and blushed slightly.

Huhuh, were her ideas so bad that so many people were contradicting her? *sniff*

Zara tried to smile. "Maybe. But I still think it's also to show that we aren't alone in this world. Just my opinion."

o_O

Ryden blinked. It all sounded very clever - too clever, perhaps, for an eleven year old - but it was... Well, not right. It just SOUNDED clever. At least, she didn't agree. AT ALL. "Tell me, when and where does this equation say that it's proven that aliens exist?" she asked, scoffing, then turned around to the other girl. The one with the brains. Yep.

"I can't say I agree with you, though. It's not that I'm not agreeing, I don't believe that the equation actually takes a stance. It's too... vague for that. That's what it is - VAGUE," Ryden said, grinning at herself for finding the right word at long last. Like the other Gryffindor girl, this equation sounded very pretty and complicated and whatnot; but it was too vague.

MWAHA.

Oh, look. The girl's agreeing with her about the younger midget. SEE? She was right. Of course. As always.

Chloe was actually starting to understand this class a bit better once the professor wrote everything out. However upon closer look she was starting to think the whole premis of this lesson made no sense. Even so she copied some notes for reference.

Chloe's notes

She then looked around for someone to discuss this crazy formula with. There is just too many parts of this equation that cannot be figured out to make any sense of it at all. Even so she had to discuss this and she hoped someone would notice she was partnerless. She also hoped most rational people would see Drake's equation as nanners for figuring out if aliens truly exist.

Risu had been a little surprised to see that a fairly heated - by his classroom's standards - discussion had developed. He felt it was time to step in at this point to steer it a little.

"The assumption behind fi," he said, then added after a slight pause, "and all other fractions that depend on each other, really, is that they are a necessity for communication, which is the end goal of this equation, of course, but that they are not a certainty. There is no rule in the Universe that states every life that develops will eventually become 'intelligent' and send messages into space. It would be possible, I suppose, to mesh all those together into one fraction and be done with it, but this would be even more difficult," he paused again, and a slight smile tugged on his lips, "or perhaps more impossible, to calculate. Let's call it ft.

"If you had, for example, a fairly good idea of the true value of fi, the accuracy of the equation would increase, but if you skipped this step - which would then, at any rate, have to appear hidden in one of the other factors, you would be stuck with ft and a useless equation until every hidden value in ft was known. It's just fleshed out more the proposed way, I guess."

Risu nodded. "This is another aspect of the problem mentioned by a few of you - why do we assume extraterrestrial life to need the same thing as life on Earth? We can safely say that they will have no idea of what a kilometre is, or a second. These are just conventions used here on Earth. Some form of, er, translation or transcription would be needed. This is, I can tell you, something we will try to deal with in our next lesson."

"You are correct, of course, to mention these things, Miss Hollingberry," Risu said, "but I might need to clarify a minor detail. Questions of, say, detectable signals or time are assumed in the factors of the equation. A huge number of different ideas stand behind each factor - for example, if intelligent life took, on average, a few billion years to develop, then this number would be important to consider in several of our factors; ne would only include planets surrounding a star capable of shining for at least that long, and so on."

He wandered back to the blackboard. "I think we've discussed the merits or lack thereof to a great extent. Before we continue with a different concept in our search for alien life, I have to know if there are any remaining questions. Or, perhaps, things that are unclear that I should talk about."

Helena kept listening carefully to everything the others were discussing, but she didn't say anything. She had her own (probably crazy) ideas, and that the short, green creatures existed. Yup.

And... questions? No. Everything was clear for Helena, so she just waited for professor Antares to go on.

Ryden looked over at the professor as he explained a few of her questions, and quickly picked up her quill to write this all down. She knew she'd remember all of this without needing to write it down, but perhaps it might help her in the homework assignment he was bound to give.

More questions? Nope, not from her.

"So...does that imply that, if we assume that this equation actually works, that we may be missing out on some forms of civilization simply because it developed faster or because the civilization died out prematurely for whatever reason?" she asked tapping her finger against her lips.

Kurumi was still holding out for an activity involving star charts, but that was seeming like less of a possibility by the minute.

Humph. Older girls picking on firsties. Baaad. Zara decided to ignore it all and keep quiet instead. She has that stubborn look on her face.

"Are there any aliens at all?" She asked as she raised her hand. Really, this was making her former hyper mood all turn into annoyance. Why were they all contradicting her? Zara sank back into her seat, a small frown on her face.

Chloe was glad they were just moving on this. This curremt topic was so up in the air. How could the equation ever be accurate. Even if we did have all the information needed, how would information like that help us figure out how much alien life form is out there. Chloe did have a question on this matter, how could anyone sane believe it could ever be accurate, but she had to say it nicely. Chloe raised her hand and said, "Professor, how would the factors presented in the eqution even if we did know all the answers give us any Earthly idea how much alien life form is out there. what if signals are not inteligent life, but rather a star combustion. Or perhaps the same civilization visits other planets and sends signals form there. The factors even if we could get them could be be skewed. I personally think in the wide universe out there we are gonna be served quite a few curve balls with a formula like drakes equation don't you think?.".