Snape is under a lot of stress and he lashes out. He hates Harry and wants to kill him, but he is under orders. Voldie wants to kill Harry personally. Snape must also impose discipline on the other Death Eaters. In the heat of battle, other DEs might forget their orders and kill Harry. Plus there is the debt: James saved Snape from werewolf!Rhemus; Snape is under some sort of obligation to save Harry.

All this pressure and insults too. I think Snape would have lashed out whatever the insult was.

Courage is the Gryff virtue. Slyth's virtues are purity, ambition and cunning. "Coward!" = "You are not a Gryff" is a very lame insult to aim at a Slyth; "Half-blood!", "Minion", "not as cunning as Draco" would hurt a Slyth more. Maybe James yelled "Coward!" while he tortured Snape and the memory stuck.

Snape and Petunia had painful childhoods. They brooded on the pain and became bitter and worse. Harry and Luna had pain and are good. Dumbledore's sermon about moral choices in CoS finale.

I don't like snape, never have.

Harry was an 11 year old boy. A child. The way Snape spoke and acted toward him in the first book particularly, and increasingly since then, is absolutely disgusting. It doesn't matter what past he had with James. But it's not just Harry, he does it to the majority of the students, and the adults too.

I don't care if he ends up being on the "good" side in the end and doing something to help, I still won't have any respect for him. Picking on children... it's inexcusable.

He is petty and cruel. I think he is very much a coward.

Picking on children is definitly out of order as a teacher can play an important role in your life, you could be discouraged from speaking out in public just from one bad teacher. Anyway, Im one of those people who is of the belief that what Snape told bellatrix at the begining is true and believe the killing of Dumbledore was for the DE's not the order or Harry, but Jo said the books mirror themselves and I was wondering if like in the first book Harry's going to be chasing after Snape and thinking he's the villain when it turns out it isnt snape but someone else. But most of me believes snape to be firmly on Voldemort's side as I think judging by how he loves the dark arts he would prefer that lifestyle. And I do think its very wrong of him to pass on his hatred to Harry when it was James's fault but maybe James's humiliated Snape so much the sight of Harry walking down corridors is like James is back. But then again Harry James and Sirius are determined to hate Snape like Lupin says in HBP. Lupin tries to get along with Snape like McGonagall but like you say Snape just shrugs it off, the only people he was ever civil or considerate to was the Malfoy family and Dumbledore and we dont even know if that was genuine, so anyway im digressing here, I think Snape is a cad and terrible man who is spiteful and petty and a bully but I dont think he's a coward, and I think that someone must have called him a coward alot or in a very vivid event.

I thought I was in the TP for a minute.

Anyways, I don't think he's a coward, but, I do think he'll end up bad. It's long and complicated. I think he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders, but he would have done it anyways.

No i think snapes good, well not angelic good. I think he only did what he did because he was under the unbreakable vow. he did what narcissa asked because shes his friend, not out of any personal vendetta or anything.

I think he just a COWARD but he killed Dumbledore because he was under the unbreakable vow with Narcissa. Severus was under pressure ,like what Rhemus said ,maybe James shouted coward when he was annoying Severus and it stuck in his memory.
Severus was a teacher and he was cruel to Harry and the others and that can ruin your personalilty(In my old school a teacher was so mean to me I lashed out and became a back-answering evil git instead of my old goody-two-shoes personalilty).

To me Severus is a cruel but COOL git who is quite a Coward in my mind.

I think Rhemus made a brilliant remark:

Which only serves to muddy the waters ... if Snape doesn't care about being brave why would the insult sting more? *Ouch*

I think it more plausible that his father called him a coward than James, here I'm thinking of the memory in the Pensieve circa Ootp.

I just don't understand, why the word coward. There's something there surely, no? Coward. Coward. Coward. But why? Unless James told Snape that on the night of the ... ZOMG! Sure Jo said that Snape wasn't under any invisibility cloak but she didn't say he wasn't at the Potter's house the night of the murder. Did she?

Memory in the pensieve, a man yelling at a cowering woman and child. Most people assume that this was Tobias Snape versus Eileen and young Severus. I prefer the theory that the man was Grandad Prince because it fits with Marvolo versus Merope. Also if Tobias and Eileen had an abusive relationship, I don't see why Severus would have been so happy to take the nickname "Half blood Prince".

Snape is not a coward.

A coward is

1. a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.
2. lacking courage; very fearful or timid.
3. proceeding from or expressive of fear or timidity: a coward cry.

That does not describe Snape. He is many things - he is often mean, unkindly, and helps no one but himself but he is not a coward - not really. Snape might have regretted some of his actions in the past and tried to correct them. He may have his own agenda in all of this but he is not evil either.



Snape, Snape, Snape...

When Harry sees Snape taking his O.W.L.s, Snape seems to be a very serious minded student. Throwing himself into his studies and not be aware of the situation around him. He does this as a means to escape from his problems. O think this is something he has good pratice after getting a glimpse of his family life at home as a young boy.

When Sirius and James catch sight of Snape as he continues to study - they torment and humiliate him in front of the other students - just because they are bored and can. Even his attempt to loose him self in his books there no reprieve.

Lily attempts to intervene, but Snape calls her a Mudblood, (because of his great embrassement and he is at his weakest and most volunerable moment) and she backs off. Perhaps Snape acted so violently to Lily's offer to help because his mom never tried or tired and failed to stand up to his overbearing father.

Harry is devastated by James and Sirius’s behavior and even feels a little bad for Snape. But Harry still doesn't try to trust him or like him. His mind is firmly made up. Snape is bad and evil. Just as James firmly did not like Snape when they met for no apparent reason.

And this was just one incident, one glismpe into what were many days in Snape's life being treated this way. When he escaped the treatment at home, he had to relieve it in other ways at school.

Had Dumbledore been honest with Harry from the beginning and explained the truth about Harry’s complex connection to Voldemort, Harry may have been more stringent with his Occlumency practice, more tolerant and understanding of Snape and, therefore, not fallen for Voldemort’s trap. If Dumbledore simply explained why Snape owes James his life or what he knows about Snape that makes him trust Snape's word without doubt that would have softened the distrust bewteen Harry & Snape.

Snape knows so much information and not only about the Dark Arts or potions. He has so much knowledge to give.

Godric Gryffindor & Salazar Slythern were the best of friends. Each balanced the other.

The sorting hat is calling for the houses to unite. Only then can Voldemort be defeated. Will Harry work with Snape after all? He is Harry's greatest untapped source for information and assistance

Respect is something that can not be demanded but has to be earned. Snape still lacks that from his peers as a grown man.

I think that is why Snape was soo angry at the end of HBP when Harry called him a coward.

Snape has risked & scarificed soo much by being a double agent. He has spent his life atoning for whatever Dumbledore says he is truly remorseful for and to top it off niether side fully trust or respect him. No one knows the truth behind Snape's actions (except Dumbledore). That is the opposite of being a coward to me.

The coward remark was just too much for him. Even in Snape's greatest scarfice he has yet to be respected. I'd be a little PO'd too. Especially since I saved the brat's butt who called me a coward more times than I can count!

Not much has changed for Snape since we watch the penisve scene... That's not an easy boat to stear!

Wow carola9146 we couldn't disagree more if I plotted it this way

Well that's the question this whole thread asks.

I like your lexical definition but you can't answer that with any certainty unless you know all of Snape's background which is my argument ... you don't think he is, and I have to ... maybe agree a little, I mean he is a spy for the Order and all that ... but then ... why did that insult sting soooooo much? C'mon, coincidence? I think not.

Yup that's our subject.

That instance I can totally understand, and I'm not saying he's a coward because of that ... but ... something else perhaps. Some other event ...

Snape could have forced Harry to keep on taking Occlumency lessons, Snape is the more mature figure here whatever Harry's ridiculous attitude, and yeah, Harry is not without blame I don't think anyone liked how he behaved in Ootp but ... Snape is the teacher and older and allegedly more mature. Which he's not. Which is why I think he's evil, which isn't the topic here ... is he a coward? I think so yes ... something he did or didn't do in the past and maybe that's why he's with the Order that's why he turned to undo something he did in the past ... maybe the reason Lily died ... he feels partly to blame ... he might have loved her ... it's been speculated elsewhere.

No. Actually you give it to strangers all the time ... and if you try not giving it to your parents ... at least in my house ... you're gonna get a whole lotta whoopin' boy ... not that I'd know I'm so well behaved.

Then you must leave room for the idea that he is attoning for some cowardly act he committed. Jo said Snape wasn't under the invisibility cloak but she didn't say he wasn't there ... the night the Potters died ... or with Neville's Parents or heaven knows where ... doing God's only knows what. Coward stung for a reason. Why?

Yeah well on behalf of the brat *Pets Harry* He's going to do something even Snape can't and that's defeat Voldemort so ... *shrugs* I'd call them even or maybe Snape still owes Harry ... for years of pain. Fact is Snape saw Harry's life at the Dursley's he knows the kind of life he had isn't the one he thought he did, all wonderful and egotistical ... but his treatment of Harry never changed. Snape at the very least is petty or a fool ... in my opinion ... we're talking about an adult ... Harry's an adolescent ... so ... I don't know if he's a coward, but I think that remark stings for a reason ... maybe he's been wrongly accused of it before ... you might be right and he's not. But there's something there isn't there?

Are those names canon? Wow ... where'd you get them? No fair I wanna know ... *pouts*

I have to say I agree with you there ... sounds more fun and mirrory.

That would depend on who the half blood was ... or rather if his father was Muggleborn or not ... or who was the wizard or witch? God I'm confusing myself LOL Then he could have taken it as a badge of honor though in truth I don't see where he was happy with the name ... since he kept it a secret ... maybe his secret shame? Uh, new thread ... LOL

Snape has to be very brave in order to live on both sides of the fence.

Snape's not a coward. Maybe in the past, but not anymore.

First, read my response to the issue of whether or not Snape actually had to kill Dumbledore...

http://snitchseeker.com/vb3/showpost...&postcount=242

Okay... so I've established that Snape is not completely evil and pretty much had to do what he was told. Maybe you think it's cowardly that he followed through with his Vow and killed Dumbledore when he could have just died himself. Yes, I do think that is cowardly, but I also believe it took a lot of courage for him to follow through with it. If I am right about Dumbledore having a greater plan, than Snape would have had to kill him if he wants the plan to work and Voldemort to be defeated, hence the self-hatred he has for having to do this. Also, by murdering Dumbledore, Snape will now be seen as evil again, and that has to suck for him, considering he probably spent a lot of time trying to redeem himself already.

In the chapterd "Flight of the Prince," a few things caught my eye...

Snape obviously didn't fight back. He could have if he wanted to, and he would've had an easy time of it, considering how emotionally distressed and unstable Harry was at this point.

Was Snape the one torturing him? And if so, wouldn't it have been easier to just Avada Kedavra him? Snape was trying to escape, so why would he spend all that time inflicting pain on him?

Oh, guess not. Snape wasn't even the one hurting him. Snape stopped Harry from being hurt. Yes, maybe Snape was just following Voldemort's orders, but I doubt that. He probably is using is as an excuse for preventing Harry from being hurt and/or killed.

This really struck me as interesting. Snape seems to be is so much pain and self-loathing at this point, and is extremely angry at Harry for calling him cowardly too. Maybe he feels he was a coward killing Dumbledore instead of breaking the Vow and dying himself and doesn't want to hear it. Or maybe he feels like a coward because he's a spy and has to resort to sneaking around instead of just openly declaring he's on the good side. Or maybe he feels like he was a coward a long time ago, and does not want to hear that he is because he's a changed man fighting for the good side and it brings back painful memories. Or maybe he feels what he's been doing was a very brave thing, and he feels like he deserves credit for it, rather than being seen as a cowardly, trecherous snake.

Basically, while Snape's definitely not completely good or brave or noble, he's not completley evil, or cowardly, or devious. He's just like everyone else... trying to do what's right.

I don't think Snape is a coward. I think he had to "kill" Dumbledore because of someone's orders. Maybe even Dumbledore's.

Hagrid overheard a row betwwen Dumbledore and Snape. Snape wanted out of something, but Dumbledore said he was in too far and he couldn't. Was Dumbledore's death a set up?

I think that Snape is a jerk and a biased, obsessive bully, but he is definately not a coward(I still love him though ). I think that he will do whatever he has to do, especially if it is for his own interests, or to save his skin. Ultimately, I think that Dumbledore told Snape to kill him, as upon learning about the Unbreakable Vow, Dumbledore would have valued Snape and Draco's lives over his own.

Yeah I definitely agree with you there. It's just like Dumbledore to be so self-sacrificing and selfless.

No he has to be very careful or he'll get caught. Not brave, but wily.

Well that's the question this thread asks, I mean if you think he was a coward in the past. How and why? Speculate.

While I agree with your points, you haven't actually established much in a concrete sense. I mean ... we don't know that Snape was tricked by Dumbledore into having to kill him. We also don't know why Dumbledore wanted him to kill him then (I swear if this turns out like Star Wars ) there's many points still up in the air ... not least of which is where Snape's ultimate loyalties lie.

Having said that I think Snape is fighting with the good guys, but this thread doesn't ask if he's evil which I think he is ... even if he is 'allegedly' doing good things.

It's funny how we can agree on the whole but when you get down to the finer points we don't. What I mean is, I agree Snape is like everyone else, I don't agree that:

a) Everyone else is trying to do what's right. Think Voldemort.
b) he's completely anything.

Cuz I think he was a coward once, that isn't to say he can't be brave. I'm just curious, why those words stung so much. There's something there I think.

CryWolf & hermy_weasley, again I don't mean Snape as being a coward solely because of his actions in killing Dumbledore, I mean at any point and time before.

I just think it's a bit fishy he didn't stop the Death Eaters before it got to that point, or that they risked getting him in the first place ... the whole death leaves me kind of funny ... like Jo didn't plan it out right.

I'm quoting your quote Weasel Queen, I still haven't gotten to that chapter again but from the looks of it, his gaze of revulsion is to Dumbledore. Why? But that's to do with his having to kill him ... maybe he did hate Dumbledore, maybe Dumbledore had something over him ...

In any event. I think there's something in Snape's past that made him react that way to those words. I'm not saying I'm right ... we won't know until book 7 if ever ... but it strikes me as an odd way to behave ... especially over someone who's opinion you shouldn't care about.

I prefer, Snape "the hero of Book 7" myself. Snape will surprise all of us, and help out the trio...and become the silent hero of the book series. I cannot wait to prove all of the Snape haters "wrong"!!!!

I think Snape is a coward. I think it bothers him that he has kept "switching" sides, even though he has not. In his life, I think many people have called him a coward. And, yes, I think it bothers him now. I think it bothers him because of what the Marauders may have called him also. And maybe what his father said to him, since his father was obviously abuseful. But I do think Snape is a coward.

I also think Snape may have been sensitive to being caled a coward because he knew what he was doing was cowardly. He vowed the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa Malfoy, saying that he would complete Draco's deed. If he broke the Vow, he would have died. And so, I think he thought what he was doing was cowardly because he didn't want to die, he was afraid of Death. So he killed Dumbledore, whether or not he wanted to. Yes, it's true that there is always a choice, but Snape made the selfish one, so I'm guessing that he couldn't have cared much about Dumbledore in the first place. However, I also believe that Dumbledore didn't know about the Vow, because when he saw Snape, he tried to make him see reason...but Snape was ready, he had long dwelt on the idea of killing Dumbledore, remaining alive, and returning to the Dark Lord. I think he is a coward because he got comfortable playing both sides of the field, and then he had to choose, and he made his choice, but may not have liked making the choice. I think Snape enjoyed being double agent to both sides because he knew that he was safe no matter what. Now he is a coward because he chose, and chose the side that could have punished him much worse if he betrayed it.

Snape played both sides, because that is what Albus Dumbledore required of him....he killed Dumbledore because that was what was asked of him, by Dumbledore. Snape did not want to do it, but knew these plans had been laid out a long time ago between himself and Albus..he was not going to let Albus down. HBP was so obvious that Snape was indeed working with DD and doing what was asked of him. What about the hints that he yelled to Harry as he was running away? Snape had to run, because there was more work for him to do, work that Albus set out for him...if he were killed as well by the members of the Order...then the ultimate plans to kill Voldie may never have been carried out....Dumbledore needed Snape alive...to help Harry, which I fully believe that he will... The Unbreakable Vow was necessary for Snape to carry out, as Bellatrix was there watching....otherwise she would have run quickly to the Dark Lord. Snape was there for DD, when the Headmaster was injured securing the ring/horcrux....he saved his life. I believe at that time, that is when he asked Snape to kill him in the event that a student got in the way. DD may have even been slowly dying at that time. It is just a matter of a few months before everyone sees Snape as Albus saw him....loyal to his friend, and determined to be rid of the Dark Lord.

I think we're obsessing too much with Dumbledore's death and Snape being a coward because of that.

He could be a coward for a million other reasons for a million things he did in the past.

Consequently, being a Snape Hater doesn't mean we think he's evil.

Therefore that statement in and of itself is wrong. You can't prove me wrong. I hate Snape cuz he's evil to kids. So unless he was making Harry strong by some spell that required him to be a jerk to all the kids at Hogwarts, he doesn't stop being evil in my eyes. That said ... is he a coward or not, outside of the context of killing Dumbledore?

I think so. I think he did something he was ashamed of in the past. If so saving Harry in the next book wouldn't be heroic so much as it would be atoning for a prior sin.



It's kind of like shipping H/Hr ... it doesn't matter what the books say. *fires the cannons*

I think he's a coward, I think those words struck him for a reason, he did or didn't do something he's ashamed of in the past. Just my opinion.

A very confusing character ... I don't know what to think

Ottery, if I offended you, I apologize. I didn't mean it in the "literary" sense. I only meant that I think alot of people will understand and appreciate Snape once they realize what transpired between him and DD...and once they understand where he is coming from with regards to his past. I highly doubt book 7 will make people love the character, but I do think they will appreciate him.

Okays, I've tried to read all the above, so if I say something which's already been mentioned, don't kill me...

I think he was angry for a number of reasons. One, he'd been called a coward for killing someone under their orders, and that takes alot of guts. After all that, Harry would go and insult him. I think that Harry sort of knew this, deep inside and that's why he couldn't "AK" Snape.

Another is that he had done something cowardly in his past; telling Voldemort about the prophecy. He did that so he had security with Voldie, but it meant losing someone and having to protect another person, making his lose his life in time.

Don't mind me luvtheweasleys, I was being all drama queen ... probably had too much sugar in me or somethin' but I'll never love Snape ... even if he is good ... Sorry I can't ... strikes too close to home.

So moving on ...

*Ottery makes Teddy put away the cannons* Nothing you've said is a repeat Ali, Teddy's just evil ...

Well when you put it like that Ali ... Well killing anyone takes guts ... but ... Grrr ... why Dumbledore

Dude I'd forgotten about that ... but he did spill the beans, and he's indirectly responsible for Lily's death ... and he might have liked her but ... someone had to have called him a coward before ... I wonder who? Someone who knew about that ... because it wasn't Sirius. Hmm ...

I can't help but think he might have killed someone or done something horrific on Voldemort's orders while he was a Death Eater which is why he changed sides, I mean when exactly did he change sides? The night of the Potter's deaths ... or before? I say he did something really cowardly ... I just don't know what. Maybe even Dumbledore called him a coward which is what made him change sides ... just sayin'.