SnitchSeeker.com - Muggle Studies Lesson 1

SnitchSeeker.com (https://www.snitchseeker.com/forum.php)

- Term 23: September - December 2009 (https://www.snitchseeker.com/term-23-september-december-2009/)

- - Muggle Studies Lesson 1 - Self Defense (https://www.snitchseeker.com/term-23-september-december-2009/muggle-studies-lesson-1-self-defense-68409/)

Quote:

Antonio continued. "Now, you will notice that the textbook defines some examples of when self defense should be used.

Quote:

A defense to certain criminal charges involving force (e.g. murder).

Use of force is justified when a person reasonably believes that it is necessary for the defense of oneself or another against the immediate use of unlawful force. However, a person must use no more force than appears reasonably necessary in the circumstances.

Force likely to cause death or great bodily harm is justified in self-defense only if a person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm.

He paused and looked around. "Do you all understand this? What do you think is the main point here?"

"Self defense is not a good defense for murder charges. In other words when you are in a dangerous sitiuation and you fear for you life, you must keep your emotions under control. The best thing to do is disarm the person who is threatening you, you companion, your family. Use deadly force only when it is absolutely necessary. Self defense is not going to save you from a murder charge if you kill the person. Defending yourself is not a license to take the law into your own hands."

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaRaRachieee (Post 8662714)

"Sir...I think the main point would be. "Brody paused for a minute, before speaking again. "That the force likely to cuase death or great bodily harmed can only be justified as self defense is it is to prevent death or great bodily harm." She paused again trying to think of what to say next.

"and I think this is a main point....because obviously the unlawful force needs to be justified."

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbiguouslyMe (Post 8662717)

Tibi raised his hand.

"I think what the text is trying to say is that if you're using force to defend yourself, you should only use what is necessary and never more. More force than necessary is no longer defense."

Heh. Maybe puking on Willie Crocker's shoes WAS self-defense.

"Four points for Hufflepuff," Antonio declared. "That was exactly what I had in mind. Nice answer. And another two points to Ravenclaw for defining the answer even further. You are all doing very well so far.

Let's go back to the textbook for a minute. Here is a statement which was made regarding the difference between violence and force. I think this is rather important.

Quote:

The Random House Unabridged dictionary gives the following as definitions of violence:
Violence: 1) Swift and intense force: the violence of a storm.
2) Rough or injurious physical force, action, treatment: to die by violence.
3) An unjust or unwarranted exertion of force or power, as against rights, laws, etc.: To take over a government by violence.
4) A violent act or proceeding.
5) Rough or immoderate vehemence as of feeling or language: the violence of his hatred.
6) Injury, as in distortion of meaning or fact: to do violence to a translation.

If you're like most people, your 'working' definition of violence is number two. However, points four and five include a screaming temper tantrum or a raging argument as violence! And number is three is a can of worms. Because what one person thinks is just and warranted (usually the doer), someone else (usually the receiver) thinks it is can be miles apart. This is why we say a person's definition of violence can be subjective. This is especially true when we look at the definitions of force:
Force: 1) strength; energy; power; intensity: a personality of great force.
2) efficacious power; power to influence, affect or control: the force of
circumstances, a force for law and order.
3) Physical power or strength possessed by a living being: He used all his force in opening the window.
4) Strength or power exerted on an object; physical coercion, violence: to
use force to open the window; to use force on a person.
5) Law. Violence offered to persons or things, as in the use of force breaking into a house,
6) Persuasive power; power to convince: They felt the force of his
argument.
7) Mental or moral strength: The force of one’s mind, intellect or will
8) Might, as of ruler or realm; strength for war.

So basically force is deemed good or bad by how you use it. And commonly when when the use is deemed bad, then it is called 'violence.'

What do you all think about this? And based on this, what would you describe as the main difference between violence and force? Or is there a difference?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by liammoiser (Post 8662515)

Sarah looked at the classroom and smiled. "If Y=X and X=Y, what is a Martial Art, is it something that has to do with Art as in Painting and if so is Martial got something to do with it." She was wondering about Martial Arts. "I know Marial married this person called Arts and so became Martial Arts.""

Quote:

Originally Posted by liammoiser (Post 8662749)

Sarah looked around the room and sighed, "I hardly understand any of this." She was realy good at muggle studies but she didn't understand much about Martial Arts. "What was that." She looked at what the Professor was saying. "This book is weird, I don't understand anything from the book, it seems to be talking in a weird languege." she sighed. "The main pain there has got to be don't allow some people to write books." She laughed. "Oh you mean about the sentance, well I don't know what it says so I don't think I can comment on that."

"Problem, Ms. Winchester?", Antonio asked as he heard a disruption. It was Sarah Winchester, why was he not surprised? "Try and follow along and perhaps you might derive some sort of understanding from this."

"Violence is intended to cause pain in a bad way but force isn't necessarily intended to hurt someone." Tammy spoke, hand once more in the air from when she started till when she ended, as she kept referencing at the book, making sure she was making sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slytherin Fox (Post 8663101)

What do you all think about this? And based on this, what would you describe as the main difference between violence and force? Or is there a difference?"

Nataly raised her hand to answer the question. "The main diffrence between Violence and Force is that violence is always negative and makes harm, and Force can be used both to positive and negative ambitions."

Miranda tried to follow as best she could while jotting down everything everyone was saying. It was proving a bit tricksy now that the Professor had asked a new question.
She raised her hand, "Sir, the difference between violence and force is that when violent you are determined to make harm. Such as attacking someone. Force is when you have to be strict and take control of a situation without attempting to make damage, but wanting to make a disciplined point."

"I guess there is a fine line between those two. Brutal force and violence might be considered the same? Brutal being that you don't care about the consequences but act purely on wanting to annihilate the threat. Maybe?" Gosh, Miranda was hoping she was making sense. Snort.

Bella nodded as a Hufflepuff answered the question. She agreed with everything she'd said. Bella raised her hand,
"I agree with her Proffesor! With Violence, you mean to do something to hurt them, while Force, is when you make someone do something, but don't neccesarly want to hurt them?" Bella felt confused with her own answer. "But then again..." Bella thought, "I guess brutal force could be the same as violence, because you would use violence to force somone to do something, maybe..."

Oh, phylopsophy? To Evan, pretty much. He again took his time thinking on the professor's question. Well, violence was violent, it hurt and it was excessive. He listened to the others, but none said his point of view, so he said it anyway. "Violence is excessive, but force is enough." Was that understandable?

Fallon was readily taking notes in one of her favorite classes. She was kind of angry because Lyra was sitting next to Evan and Fallon was somewhere far away from barely making it to class on time. She listened as everyone else answered. She was too mad to really want to give her opinion at this point, so she just sat there taking notes.

"I don't think there is a difference between violence and force. They mean the same thing."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Weasley (Post 8663243)

"I don't think there is a difference between violence and force. They mean the same thing."

Bella thought this answer through, yes...it could be true. But...
Bella raised her hand, "The thing is though proffesor, you can use violence when forcing someone, but you can't use force when using violence against someone...wait, actually you could in a sense, so...yes, i suppose they could mean the same thing after all." She smiled, glad she understood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by midget ♥ (Post 8663113)

" Hi Tammy" Jason said to her. " Professor, I think self-defense is good when someone has a weapon on you but you must know how to use it at the right time" Jason told him.

Fallon was fed up with just sitting there so she raised her hand and said, "Professor, to commit an act of violence, you must use some form of force. Therefore, force isn't exactally the same as violence because there are different kinds, but violence needs force to be done. Does that make sense?" She had to add the last part because it sounded better inside her head then when she said it outloud.

Oh, this lesson was a bore.

Lips curling unhappily, Woodson studied the desk he was sitting behind with great repulsion. Hadn't anyone heard of cleaning around here? Why was everything so vulgar?

"Some people need a bit of force," the fifth year drawled boredly. "Discipline."

Something most of these people clearly hadn't had. Hooligans. The lot of them.

Copernicus wrinkled his nose at the Slytherin sitting near him, wondering what sort of experience he had as a mere fifth year to determine that some people needed force exerted upon them. Sigh. Such a violent, violent student body.

He raised his hand. "Professor, my understanding from those definitions is that force is a component of violence, a tool if you will. They are not the same thing, just as chocolate chips aren't the same thing as chocolate chip cookies. There is more to violence then mere force... there's also action or intent to harm, either physically, emotionally, or mentally."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slytherin Fox (Post 8663101)

What do you all think about this? And based on this, what would you describe as the main difference between violence and force? Or is there a difference?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterloo (Post 8663472)

Rachel was just about to answer when this new kid - a year younger than her, though with the expression he was wearing he looked at least her age if not older - drawled some stupid answer in a half hearted tone and she had the mad urge to shout at him. Let him know that he's got NO RIGHT to speak to a Professor like that - who does he think he is?!

Calm.... calm... calm. Calm.

"I think the main difference is that force can occasionally be associated with something positive, while violence can never be," Rachel raised her hand and answered in a bright, to the point voice - her posture perfect and her head held high as she talked. ~~Of course, she did this all the time and not because Mister High and Mighty needed some lessons in manners...~~

HA! Oh, wait - no ha. Copernicus' answer was better than hers... BUT he didn't look too please with La-Di-Da boy either. So, yes ha. HA!

Quote:

Originally Posted by midget ♥ (Post 8663113)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampire_BaD_GiRl (Post 8663119)

"Those are both excellent answers," Antonio stated. "I am going to give four points each to Hufflepuff and Slytherin for your quick and clear answers." He looked around, still no great performance from the Gryffindor students. The other houses were stealing the show. He would have thought Gryffindor would have known more about self defense, he thought to himself. He was going to have to motivate those students somehow, they needed a good pep talk or something.

"Okay, I want to talk a little about some other methods of self defense," Antonio said. "Some muggles use a substance known as pepper spray, or OC spray. Does anyone know what the OC stands for? I think you might find this textbook helpful for your reference on that."

Pepper Spray

Fallon didn't care that she didn't get points. She was glad that someone from Slytherin did though. Last year was just horrible when it came to the house cup. They needed as much help as they could and the new Slytherin Firsties seemed to be good in that department.

She then raised her hand to answer Professor Dumont's next question, "OC in OC spray stands for Oleoresin Capsicum." She grinned, happy that she grew up in a Muggle society.

Okay then.....OC......what in Merlin's lost pinky toe was OC? Searching the text book she smiled happily as she spotted the simbols. Score for Jenn! Raising her hand she anwserd, "OC stands for Oleoresin Capsicum." WOOT! She was doing pretty good in this class, for someone who had only been in muggle surrondings a few times in her life.

K raised her hand, "Professor OC spray or gas stands for Oleoresin Capsicum I believe" K smiled for she was pretty sure she got it right.

Evan quickly raised his hand. He'd know that! "OC stand to Oleoresin Capsicum, sir." he said quickly, hoping to make it this time.

"Sir - the OC stands for Oleoresin Capsicum. Oleoresin is a soft form of resin which is basically plant sap and Capsicum is the formal name given to all the peppers," Rachel answered, raising her hand and speaking slowly so that she could pronounce all those words properly.

" It is oleoresin capsicum professor" said Damon raising his hand. "It is simply an irritant when someone has it sprayed on them. It is used for many self defense measures. It is made out of some liquified substances"

Satine flipped through her book but as soon as she saw the answer she heard a million of the same sad outloud and decided just to take notes of the answer.

Vilhelmiina raised her hand and said, "OC stands for Oleoresin Capsicum, sir. It is a lachrymatory agent." She was glad that her mother had her take that muggle defense class.

"Professor I believe that the "O" stands for Oleoresin or resin And the "C" for Capsicum or peppers" Adelaide thought this through and remembered something else she learned "Professor I thought that Pepper Spray was illegal for common muggle citizens of England that only Police were allowed to use it according to the firearms act of 1968 Any weapon designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas is prohibited. Is this true?"