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Maxilocks · 07-07-2011, 10:30 AM

OOC: Hihi, guys. I've had some far-from-pleasant stuff going on in Real Life that I needed/ need to deal with.

I'm still... trying to deal with it. So I'm going to try to wrap up this lesson in the next few days. Thank you for being so patient and fantastic and active. You have no idea what that means to me.

On a side-note.. even if I haven't mentioned Jared giving you/ your character points, you all get points for your awesome answers.

Text Cut: Responses

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevensnared

Sounding quite serious, Aiden coolly answers the professor. "In my opinion, yes, it could since there are charms that could change the form and appearance of an object such as the Engorgement Charm."

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlytherinPrincess

Isabella raised Her Hand Once More and Said , " Professor I Think That There Are Charms That Could be called Transfigurational Spells Since They Change The Appearance of things .

For Example One Transfiguration Charm is Reducio .
It Returns An Item To It's Regular Size Since The Engorgment Charm Makes the item Bigger the Reducio Charm Makes It Smaller . " She Finished .

"Changing the size does not change the nature of an object," Jared corrected. "Remember that physical appearance and nature aren't synonymous." Still. "Take a point each."

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuroraQuinn

Aurora nodded. "I guess so, like Aiden said, the Engorgement charm is one, or Densagio, the one that makes your teeth bigger, though I suppose that's a hex rather than a charm." she added, beginning to doubt herself a little. "What's the difference between a hex and a charm?" she asked.

"You've brought up a good point," Jared said, smile faint but there. "Densaugio is a hex but, since a hex is any spell developed with the intention of causing a minor degree of pain or discomfort, it's important to note that all hexes are charms or transfigurational spells."

"Take two points for your house."

Quote:

Originally Posted by fire_faerie

Hmm. "Professor, I think the main difference between Charms and Transfiguration is that Transfiguration morphs the actual object into something else whereas Charms just alters its properties... So no," Ryden said, then tried to think of an example she could give. "I suppose, if you take the Permanent Sticking Charm... The charm gave it a quality that enabled it to stick BUT if you transfigure a part of it into superglue or something, then you've actually changed the object. Changing an object's size doesn't change its actual properties, it just makes them all larger... And so on and so forth."

Interesting. "That's a well thought out answer, Ryden. The Permanent Sticking Charm doesn't transfigure part of the target, however, so it's what we might call a legitimate charm."

"Take two points for your house."

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheeseStrings

"Professor, I think there is. Like the Colour Changing Charm. It changes the object's physical properties.

Text Cut: Kurumii

Forever the thinker, Kurumi. Jared had to smile, one of those rare actual smiles of his, as she began her answer and... well, continued. For a good few minutes.

"It's important to understand that there is a difference - and a clear-cut one, most of the time - between altering appearance, and altering nature. In simple words, purple tomatoes might not be common but, in the end, purple tomatoes are tomatoes, not apples. That means the Colour-Changing Charm doesn't change the basic nature of its target." He nodded to the other student who had suggested the Colour-Changing Charm, too.

"While it is common to state the charms cause objects to do unexpected things, the actual definition does not mention that. That said, remember that all vanishing spells are transfiguration, even if they have the suffix 'charm' attached to them. We'll come back to that, in a moment."

Mending charm? "Its state, but not its nature," Jared agreed. "However, theoretically speaking, it could be considered a gray area." They'd come back to that, too. "Take five points, Kurumi."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna Banana

"What about transfiguring, or charming," ...or whatever... "objects into stone?" she asked, her hand in the air. "It's a charm, because you're obviously changing how it looks and what it's capable of," she continued, "but you're also transfiguring the object into something else entirely when it turns to stone..."

She sort of trailed off on the last word. She was starting to confuse herself.

Jared grinned. "That would depend upon the spell you're using. If it's giving the target the same set of vital functions as a stone, then it's Transfiguration. If it's just giving your target the appearance of a stone - it looks like a stone, but it doesn't 'function' like one - then it's a charm."

Text Cut: Charms? Yes. No. Maybe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedHearts

Raising her hand, Zara began to recite, "I think so, Professor. Because isn't there something called a Protean Charm? But it's classified as under Transfiguration. It's known to be able to link several objects together, but with the need of a common purpose. Erm, it was said to qualify under Transfiguration.." Whoah, she wasn't sure with her answer. Just basing what she had read through a book.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emishlon

"I think they are very similar subjects, but I don't think spells should be considered as both." Just give 'em one category! MAke them less confusing. Funnily enough, when he was eleven-ish, Jamie didn't see any difference in the two at all anyway. Growing older now, he had learnt a thing or two, yup. Using the Professor's example, giving an object wings still doesn't change the object into something completely new, only modifies it. So, it does make them quite different, in his opinion. "So, I suppose you could use both types on the same object, but they would produce totally different things."

"Although, I do know of the.... Protein Charm.." Merlin knows what it did, though. "Isn't it somethin' to do with health, sir? Anyway... that is classed under transfiguration, despite being a charm." Maybe it transfigured your insides to have lots of protein in it. Eh, that sounded extremely unlikely, but what else could a PROTEIN charm do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snape'sGirlThru&Thru

Vashti took a few moments to consider the question before raising her hand. "I think their boundaries do sort of blur or overlap with some spells, or at least they appear to," she began. "For example, the Patronus Charm. It's called a Charm, but when you use it, you conjure up a sort of white energy or magic that usually takes the form of an animal when fully formed. Conjuration is a branch of Transfiguration, so it could be argued that conjuring a Patronus is more of a Transfiguration spell than a charm."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Potter Weasley

William raised his hand. " One of the spells that could cross over between Charms and Transfiguration spells is called Protean Charm" Willaim told the professor. " The reason because it changes the apperance of the item" Willian said to the professor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaRoHeGiNeLu

"Wouldn't any kind of shield charm be...I guess a cross between defence, charms, and transfiguration? Because you're producing something out of nothingness, that's transfiguration. But the shield part is defence. And their called charms. Some of them." That took too much thought. "And that one...that it's a charm...but it changes how something looks..." Ellie didn't and wouldn't know the name of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnbwxsprinkles

"I think there are some spells that are considered charms even though they conjure. Like Orchideus for flowers and Augmenti for water. Although I could be wrong about them being charms."

"Before the formation of a proper system of classification, spells were just that." Spells. There hadn't been rigid regulations and definitions in existence, then. "Spells such as aguamenti and aqua eructo were called 'conjuration charms.' Later, as different branches of magic developed and fixed laws were formulated, charms and transfigurational spells were separated, and those two officially came under the heading of the latter. They're an accepted part of Transfigurational magic now, but are still, at times, referred to - and even taught - as 'Conjuration Charms.'"

"The same, more or less, goes for the Protean and Shield Charms. Both are accepted as Transfigurational spells, but the use of 'Charm' as a suffix comes from familiarity and common usage. If you choose to study Charms on a higher level, you'll see that advanced defensive magic often consists of more than one part - transfiguration and charms - but the important thing is, both parts are distinct." The charms and transfigurational parts were separate. "If you don't understand all of this right away, don't worry. We'll come back to it in a bit."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starbreeze

“For example, the Hover Charm might make the target lighter, or maybe immune to gravity, or maybe it summons a little invisible dragon that comes and picks the object up, but the object remains the same.” Eino could come up with a million reasons as to how the Hover Charm might work but the point is it didn’t change the object. “I don’t think some charms could be called transfiguration spells, though.” Just because an Eino might look like a Hugo does not mean a Hugo could be called an Eino. The blur between the two only existed to those who didn’t know any better. “Just because some of us,” Yes, Eino was speaking of himself mostly, “misidentify a charm as a transfiguration doesn’t mean it is so, or could be. Spells are categorized according to their nature, not appearance.” Spoken like a true ~~below average~~ Ravenclaw.

"That's an excellent point, Eino." Jared had hoped one of the students would bring it up. "We'll come back to it, in a moment. Take four points for your house."

Quote:

Originally Posted by nogoodforyou

"How about the freezing charm?" Helena suggested, with her hand raised. "It kind of changes the nature of water for example, if we freeze it." Or... not? Well... the water is liquid and blah blah, and after it is frozen, it's... frozen. Not liquid anymore.

Jared had to grin. "The standard Freezing Charm renders the target immobile," he reminded. That had been the topic of one of the classes, last year. "But yes, a charm that changes the physical state of the target can be considered a gray area." Theoretically speaking, of course. "Take two points."

Text Cut: Trish

"You're on the right track," Jared nodded. "Transfiguration isn't the art of changing form and appearance, but you're right that there is a difference." Once again, they'd come back to that later. "Take two points for your house."

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyPatronusIsaMoose

Professor Sir, Oakey called him still unsure on how to pronounce his name. I'm a little unsure on this but in Transfiguration class Shaw had us create spells for him to test and change the objects form, and well he demenstrated our's on his cloak. It was supposed to transform into a dog but all it did was make the cloak act like a dog. He was still dissapointed in this event, but it seemed that this was what Disco Toe was talking about with the differences in Charms and Transfigurations. Is it possible that the spell my group made in that class was a charm because The cloak changed it's nature and not its form.

Jared had to grin. "I do believe it's the other way around," he said. "If the spell changed the cloak's form, but not it's nature, that makes it a charm. Of course, it's not always possible to categorize a spell without seeing it cast - each spell has a unique mechanism and, until one has studied the mechanism, calling it a charm or a transfigurational spell is a shot in the dark."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry174

"Professor I think that they wil be blured because you transform something in Transfiguration but a charm is where you decided that you want to charm an object or someone, you try and make them fall in love with you or something like that." Simon smiled.

"Transformations are a part of Charms, too," Jared pointed out.

And?

"And we're talking about Charms with a capital C, Simon." The subject, kid, the subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicGlitter

Ariella raised her hands again. "I can't think of any spells used as charms off the top of my head that could be used as transfigurational spells, no. Because transfiguration is the actual changing of one object to another, while charms is just changing various properties....or parts of an object." Come to think of it, she did have a question. "Could a charm be thought of as a hex as well? A hex is typically used to inflict discomfort or pain, but charms could do that, too, right?" That was a little off topic, but she couldn't help herself when she had a good question.

"In general, no." Jared shook his head. "Remember that all hexes are spells. That means they're always charms or transfigurational spells. The difference between a charm and a hex, though, is the purpose they are created to serve. Charms are invented for an actual, reasonable purpose; hexes, to cause discomfort. Think of it this way: you can use a teacup to hit someone on the head, but that doesn't make a teacup a weapon. So while a charm can be used to inflict pain, that doesn't make it a hex."

"Good question. Take two points for your house."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoom

Macy blinked. She opened her mouth to speak, and then closed it. She did it again. Open. Close. Merlin, she must look like a fish!

Anywhoo... Whaaaat was the professor talking about? Spells and... charms... and just, throw transfiguration in there to throw her off some more, why don't you. EURGH. "I. Erm. Yes." was her answer. Honestly, the girl had absolutely no idea what he was talking about.

Jared grinned. "Don't worry. It can be confusing, at first."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivy Nienna

"I think perhaps the line blurs on spells like the Canary Transfiguration Hex which turns the target into a giant canary thus giving it properties, in this case a beak and feathers to say the least, that the target did not have before, instead of completely transfiguring him or her into an actual small canary."

"That would be a hex that falls under the heading of transfiguration," Jared said. "The Canary Transfiguration Hex is meant to transfigure all, not part, of a person. Complete human transfiguration is difficult to perform at the best of times, however, and that means it isn't often that people can use it to its full..." Potential? "Potential," he said, with a bit of a wry smile. The confusion there had more to do with the hex not being successful often, than it blurring lines. "Good example, though. Take two points for Ravenclaw."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Quotes Quill

‘How about the Vanishing Spell?’, the girl asked. Thinking about it, it wasn’t transfiguration, but not relley charms either. Or, maybe…was it transfiguration if the object disappears? ‘Or…eh…maybe Alohomora?’, the girl tryied again hoping at least this was right. ‘It makes doors open, so it doeas change something at them, right?’

"Vanishing and conjuration are solid transfiguration," Jared said, giving Gwen a faint smile. "The Unlocking Charm isn't considered transfiguration, because it doesn't change the nature of a lock - it affects how it works, on a superficial level. That's the reason alohomora doesn't work on certain kinds of locks: if untransfiguration is involved, the charm fails."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Presley Black

Presley leaned forward and rested her head for a second on the table. Still listening to everyone answering around her, Presley started to get tired. She jerked upright. She COULD NOT sleep during class! That was absolutely unacceptable. But her eyes were so tired. Maybe if she sat up straight, and just rested them for a while...Presley head smacked the desk, hard and she was fully awake. She hadn't even realized that her head was drooping until it hit the desk. She massaged her forehead, there was going to be a bruise. Lucky her.

Was he supposed to tell her off for sleeping in class?

...

"Alright there?" Jared asked. She didn't need medical attention, did she?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Potter Weasley

" Please, I still want to be freinds" Willaim mouthed to Presley.

Riiight.

"I'm sure you do, William. This, unfortunately, is not the time." Focus, kid, focus.

Text Cut: Everyooone else <3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herminny

"Now where the line really draws thin is with incendio because putting something on fire changes w=it's chemical makeup as it burns into the object into a new substance and in transfiguration you are changing an object into a whole new substance and back again. The damage of fire can't be reversed however there are some charms that can. I guess the only true difference is that charms can never never make a living thing into a whole new subatance.", Chloe responded rambling out an answer she hoped made some sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Quotes Quill

‘But there is a spell… Episkey?’, Gwen asked, thinking it would be best if she would shut up already. ‘It is used to heal relatively minor injuries…so it does change something, but not the person entirely.’

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheeseStrings

"Well, both charming spells and transfiguration spells are used to change the object being charmed or transfigured int something, err, different. But, in Transfiguration you change the object's physical properties or even into something that is totally different, like changing a rock, which has no life in it, into a terrier, which is a living thing. In Charms, you change the behaviour of the object. For example, charming a pen-- I mean, a quill to fly using the Wingardium Leviosa spell. The quill still looks like a normal quill, but a not-charmed quill can't fly, right?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samia

3 points. Orlando was proud of himself, yep yep. Even though he may not be able to gain anymore points in this class. Because then came the hard question. The sixteen year old contemplated for a moment before answering. "Ahh .. Professor I am not really sure if Transfiguration and Charms have boundaries that blur at some point. Because with charm you are just making an object do things while in Transfiguration you end up changing the appearance of the object as well"

Quote:

Originally Posted by steflegan

"Um... I think that a charm changes the behavior of an object or person, while a transfiguration changes that object or person completely into something else. I think."

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrapehGrape

Fallon listened as people threw out some suggestions. She figured she might as well participate in class. Her class participation was really lacking this year and she needed to make up for it. Charms class seemed to be the perfect way to do so. Fallon raised her hand and said, "There are a few Charms out there that can effect the way a person looks, which is a form of Transfiguration." A couple people had said something along those lines, but Fallon really didn't care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samira Malfoy Potter

Ooh three points for answering a question? Yay! Samira should answer questions more often. She eagerly raised her hand for the next one. "Professor, I think where the boundaries between Transfiguaration and Charms blur is...for example....in charms, if you change the color of an object. That's not really Transfiguration, because you're not transforming the actual object. Charms like the glamour charm do change the way a person looks, but it is not transfiguring the actual person." She paused a little. "So no, I think Charms and Transfiguration are two separate categories."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna Banana

"What about transfiguring, or charming," ...or whatever... "objects into stone?" she asked, her hand in the air. "It's a charm, because you're obviously changing how it looks and what it's capable of," she continued, "but you're also transfiguring the object into something else entirely when it turns to stone..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon_star

"Not any that I can think of on the top of my head..." Savannah said, "What about that dissilusional charm that you taught us last year? I guess it could be in the boundary, it is kind of changing an object..." Savvy hesitated. No, that couldn't be it, its only blending the object to its surroundings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArianaBlack

Nika listened to his explanation of what a charm was and decided it would be a good time to take out some parchment and her quill. Notes are never fun, but might as well take a few so she doesn't turn green during the final this term too. She listened to the question and then some response from other students as she thought about her own answer. Well if the two subjects didn't blur then they wouldn't be talking about it now would they? "I guess maybe the two can be really similar." Maybe that's why Nika was awful at both subjects. "There are some charms that change an objects appearance right?" She asked slowly. Hmmm.... This is starting to get confusing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fire_faerie

Hmm. "Professor, I think the main difference between Charms and Transfiguration is that Transfiguration morphs the actual object into something else whereas Charms just alters its properties... So no," Ryden said, then tried to think of an example she could give. "I suppose, if you take the Permanent Sticking Charm... The charm gave it a quality that enabled it to stick BUT if you transfigure a part of it into superglue or something, then you've actually changed the object. Changing an object's size doesn't change its actual properties, it just makes them all larger... And so on and so forth."

Come to think of it, this was a fascinating question if one thought about it deeply enough. Seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrapehGrape

Fallon listened as people threw out some suggestions. She figured she might as well participate in class. Her class participation was really lacking this year and she needed to make up for it. Charms class seemed to be the perfect way to do so. Fallon raised her hand and said, "There are a few Charms out there that can effect the way a person looks, which is a form of Transfiguration." A couple people had said something along those lines, but Fallon really didn't care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samira Malfoy Potter

Ooh three points for answering a question? Yay! Samira should answer questions more often. She eagerly raised her hand for the next one. "Professor, I think where the boundaries between Transfiguaration and Charms blur is...for example....in charms, if you change the color of an object. That's not really Transfiguration, because you're not transforming the actual object. Charms like the glamour charm do change the way a person looks, but it is not transfiguring the actual person." She paused a little. "So no, I think Charms and Transfiguration are two separate categories."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deniiz

Three points for each?! Mweh, if Evan had known, he would have answered it too, despite like a hundred answers that all said the same. Oh well. Onto the next question, then. Raising his hand, he said "I guess colour-changing charms and the animation charms are also transfiguration. I mean, they change, right?" Right. It was called transfugration when changing inanimate objects into animate ones; and then there were such charms like 'accio' to move the objects... "I guess, the boundary is unclear when they both change something... especially physical traits." Charms or transfiguration, he didn't really care what it was as long as he could do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berttie-bott

Thank God Janet's previous answer was good enough. The next question's pretty tough, she thought. But she gave it a try. She raised her hand and answered, "Well, I think They are quite similar, but they are still diffrent. In Charms, they don't totaly change, only a small part of it. Like what you said, Professor, Giving it wings. For example, If we give a shoe wings, it will still be a shoe, but with wings. But in transfiguration, They change into things that don't even have connection between them. Like a rock into a dog, It doesn't have any connection at all. So, I guess spells studied as charms, couldn't be called transfigurational spells". Please be right, Please be right,Please be right !!, She hoped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimalia

Having finished writing her thoughts down, Kimalia felt she might have a unique way to describe it. "Well, with Transfiguration you're altering more than just the physical appearance but the internal structure as well, such as turning a cat into a mouse." Kimalia continued, "Charms have more to deal with enchantments, the spell Engorgio does alter the physical appearance making the object larger, but the similarity ends there once you realize it's still the same object, just larger."

Quote:

Originally Posted by insignia57

Brielle stopped for a moment, a bit confused. She listened to the otehr students words and nodded her head in agreement. She somehow seemed confused if she was still supposed to answer, with all the talking going around. Clearing her throat, she spoke just loud enough to be heard, "I think so, professor. For there are spells in Charms that do change the physical appearance of the object, and wouldn't that be as close to Transfiguration as it can get? Like the engorgio and the such, "

Quote:

Originally Posted by Presley Black

Presley raised her hand. "Charms wear off, Professor. When you transfigure something, it stay transfigured until you untransfigure it. Right?" She wasn't absolutely sure on this point, but from her experience, that had been a fundamental difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annabeth

Rachel put her hand up, "Well don't charms sort of go? If you transfigure something, it stays in the same from until it is turned back, I think." Rachel said, she wasnt sure at all, but felt she needed to say something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanialRadFAN01

Taking notes of what he man said, Riley thought hard for a moment about the question that was asked next. After some thinking, the seventh year raised his hand. "Professor, an example of what you are saying would be the charm that changes water into rum or tea, or any other liquid really. Although the change may not be perminent it still transfigures the physical state of the water into another liquid." Lowering his hand Riley was abit amazed by the words that came out of his mouth. Now to hope that they were all forming a right answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarahb

Isabelle raises her hand. "Professor, to charm something is to make a change to something though not normally permenent. When you transfigure something it normally has a permenent effect. For the most part charms are non-permenent transfigurations." Ugh that did not sound right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ortalismusicoh

Ness had so far been pretty quite, but she thought she knew the answer to the next question so she put up her hand then when it was ger turn said. "Um.. Proffessor I think the difference is that in transfiguration makes the whole object something different including the way it moves, thinks, speaks and so on, where as with charms it only changes one thing of the object!" said Ness hoping that whatever she had just said was right, cause what she said seemed to confuse her just a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpfan18

"Professor isn't a charm a spell used to make something happen quickly and efficently? And when you transfigure something you are changing the subject completly?" Annabelle asked as she raised her hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokah Face

"Well, Professor," he said, "Another example could be the Bat-Bogey Hex, couldn't it? Enlarging your opponent's bogeys would definitely entail the use of a charm. But the fact that the bogeys grow wings and attack your opponent, well that would grant them physical attributes they did not possess before. Thus, it would have similarities to Transfiguration...although the bogeys remain bogeys...." his voice dwindled slightly as he came to the realization at the end. He lowered his hand, hoping his answer was at least somewhat correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady of the Lake

'There are charms that change certain aspects in the appearance of objects, such as size, shape or colour, so those could be borderline with Transfiguration, but not really Transfiguration, since objects are just altered and not completely transformed.' the first year Gryffindor replied after putting her hand up. Having done that, however, the girl realized that her answer was pretty much the same as her colleagues's. Oh well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittlePadfoot

Molly scribbled down the last of the notes she'd made upon her Professor's words. She tapped her quill a bit against her chin, her eyes looking up to the cieling - which she found was full of beautifully glistening icicles - while thinking hard on an answer to her teacher's question. She then raised her hand a bit slowly and insecure. "I think that charms can only transform part of the object, like for example it's appearence or a special part of it's looks, and not the object completely because that's what Transfiguration does."

Quote:

Originally Posted by MargyPargy

Dulcibella thought for a moment. "What about turning something into wood as that is changing its appearance and its looks." Wait, thats the same thing. "I mean, its appearance and function???"

It was a good thing he had asked this question, because it seemed a good number of the students didn't have a clear idea what the differences between Charms and Transfiguration, were.

"Right," Jared said. "It seems most of you have the same basic concepts and confusions, so let's discuss a few things before we move on. There are spells that may look as if they blur the lines between Charms and Transfiguration but, the fact is, they do not. Charms and transfigurational spells are both spells. The difference? Charms change an object on a superficial level, while Transfiguration changes its vital functions. Think of it this way: a charm turns a red apple into a green apple, but a transfigurational spells turns it into an orange." The green apple would still be an apple, but the orange would be foreign territory. "Remember that neither is permanent: how long a charm or a transfigurational spell lasts, depends on the caster's intentions, concentration and abilities. "

"All conjuration and vanishing spells are a part of Transfiguration. That means spells like Incendio, Aguamenti and Evanesco are all Transfiguration. Much of students' confusion stems from the fact that before the formation of a proper system of classification, spells were just... spells." There hadn't been rigid regulations and definitions in existence, then. "The terms charm, spell and transfiguration were often used inter-changeably. Later, as different branches of magic developed and fixed laws were formulated, charms and transfigurational spells were separated. The old names still remained popular, however, so transfigurational spells like the Protean Charm and the Shield Charm still have 'charm' as a suffix." The 'but they aren't charms' argument was a bit like the 'but sandwiches don't contain sand!' argument, all things considered.

"The most important thing to remember, however, is that you can never categorize a spell just by knowing what it does." That was the one thing that none of the students seemed to know. "Each spell has a mechanism and, unless you know about this mechanism, you can't always say if a spell is a charm or not, because you don't know how it's bringing about the change it's bringing about. In more simple words, a spell that turns an apple into an orange might not be transfiguration because it might be making the apple look like an orange. It could be just the appearance that changes and, underneath that appearance, the apple would still be an apple. It could also be an advanced spell, with more than one part, which means it could be executing a series of spells - such as a charm and a transfigurational spell. Confusing, right?" Of course. "Rule of thumb at this stage, is that conjuration and vanishing? Always transfiguration. Something else? Likely to be charms."

He gave the class a few minutes to digest and jot down the information, before moving on. "Today, we're going to learn -" Or revise, as the case might be - "The Glisseo Charm. Does anyone know what this charm does, or a possible scenario it could be used in?"

07-07-2011, 10:30 AM	#180 (permalink)
Maxilocks SS Featured Author Türk Bilgini Bugbear Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: {in a leap of faith} Posts: 31,791 Hogwarts RPG Name: Sarani Glass Graduated x12	♥ Mrs. Itachi Uchiha™ & MAJNOO! : Bleach & Kyo & Natsume ♥ [ Maxh!Jesh ] OOC: Hihi, guys. I've had some far-from-pleasant stuff going on in Real Life that I needed/ need to deal with. I'm still... trying to deal with it. So I'm going to try to wrap up this lesson in the next few days. Thank you for being so patient and fantastic and active. You have no idea what that means to me. On a side-note.. even if I haven't mentioned Jared giving you/ your character points, you all get points for your awesome answers. Text Cut: Responses Quote: Originally Posted by sevensnared Sounding quite serious, Aiden coolly answers the professor. "In my opinion, yes, it could since there are charms that could change the form and appearance of an object such as the Engorgement Charm." Quote: Originally Posted by SlytherinPrincess Isabella raised Her Hand Once More and Said , " Professor I Think That There Are Charms That Could be called Transfigurational Spells Since They Change The Appearance of things . For Example One Transfiguration Charm is Reducio . It Returns An Item To It's Regular Size Since The Engorgment Charm Makes the item Bigger the Reducio Charm Makes It Smaller . " She Finished . *"Changing the size does not change the nature* of an object," Jared corrected. "Remember that physical appearance and nature aren't synonymous." Still. "Take a point each." Quote: Originally Posted by AuroraQuinn Aurora nodded. "I guess so, like Aiden said, the Engorgement charm is one, or Densagio, the one that makes your teeth bigger, though I suppose that's a hex rather than a charm." she added, beginning to doubt herself a little. "What's the difference between a hex and a charm?" she asked. "You've brought up a good point,"** Jared said, smile faint but there. "Densaugio is a hex but, since a hex is any spell developed with the intention of causing a minor degree of pain or discomfort, it's important to note that all hexes are charms or transfigurational spells." "Take two points for your house." Quote: Originally Posted by fire_faerie Hmm. "Professor, I think the main difference between Charms and Transfiguration is that Transfiguration morphs the actual object into something else whereas Charms just alters its properties... So no," Ryden said, then tried to think of an example she could give. "I suppose, if you take the Permanent Sticking Charm... The charm gave it a quality that enabled it to stick BUT if you transfigure a part of it into superglue or something, then you've actually changed the object. Changing an object's size doesn't change its actual properties, it just makes them all larger... And so on and so forth." Interesting. "That's a well thought out answer, Ryden. The Permanent Sticking Charm doesn't transfigure part of the target, however, so it's what we might call a legitimate charm." "Take two points for your house." Quote: Originally Posted by cheeseStrings "Professor, I think there is. Like the Colour Changing Charm. It changes the object's physical properties. Text Cut: Kurumii Quote: Originally Posted by sweetpinkpixie Kurumi thought for a moment before raising her hand. "I think that the two subjects overlap on another. There are many spells that do involve transfiguring an object into something that it wasn't originally. While the actually state of the object is the same, there is a certain quality to it that has changed. The Colour Change Charm changes the objects color, so one could argue that you have transfigured it into something that it wasn't. I don't imagine there are many purple tomatoes around as an example." She paused for a moment to scratch the back of her head and think a bit more. "We have all mentioned that Charms cause an object to do something unexpected, but I wouldn't really consider the effects of the Scouring Charm to be in that category since it simply cleans the object. If you want to get technical, you could also say that this spell changed a dirty object into a clean one and therefore transfigured it." Kurumi held the side of her head. She was probably over thinking things, which wasn't the best of ideas considering she was still in recovery mode from her concussion. "I also think that the Mending Charm is in the gray area between Charms and Transfiguration. In mending something, you actually are changing the state of the object." She put her hand down. No more thinking for a little. Her head was beginning to hurt. Forever the thinker, Kurumi. Jared had to smile, one of those rare actual smiles of his, as she began her answer and... well, continued. For a good few minutes. "It's important to understand that there is a difference - and a clear-cut one, most of the time - between altering appearance, and altering nature. In simple words, purple tomatoes might not be common but, in the end, purple tomatoes are tomatoes, not apples. That means the Colour-Changing Charm doesn't change the basic nature of its target." He nodded to the other student who had suggested the Colour-Changing Charm, too. "While it is common to state the charms cause objects to do unexpected things, the actual definition does not mention that. That said, remember that all vanishing spells are transfiguration, even if they have the suffix 'charm' attached to them. We'll come back to that, in a moment." Mending charm? "Its state, but not its nature," Jared agreed. *"However, theoretically speaking, it could* be considered a gray area." They'd come back to that, too. "Take five points, Kurumi." Quote: Originally Posted by Anna Banana "What about transfiguring, or charming," ...or whatever... "objects into stone?" she asked, her hand in the air. "It's a charm, because you're obviously changing how it looks and what it's capable of," she continued, "but you're also transfiguring the object into something else entirely when it turns to stone..." She sort of trailed off on the last word. She was starting to confuse herself. Jared grinned. "That would depend upon the spell you're using. If it's giving the target the same set of vital functions as a stone, then it's Transfiguration. If it's just giving your target the appearance of a stone - it looks like a stone, but it doesn't 'function' like one - then it's a charm." Text Cut*: Charms? Yes. No. Maybe.* Quote: Originally Posted by TwistedHearts Raising her hand, Zara began to recite, "I think so, Professor. Because isn't there something called a Protean Charm? But it's classified as under Transfiguration. It's known to be able to link several objects together, but with the need of a common purpose. Erm, it was said to qualify under Transfiguration.." Whoah, she wasn't sure with her answer. Just basing what she had read through a book. Quote: Originally Posted by Emishlon "I think they are very similar subjects, but I don't think spells should be considered as both." Just give 'em one category! MAke them less confusing. Funnily enough, when he was eleven-ish, Jamie didn't see any difference in the two at all anyway. Growing older now, he had learnt a thing or two, yup. Using the Professor's example, giving an object wings still doesn't change the object into something completely new, only modifies it. So, it does make them quite different, in his opinion. "So, I suppose you could use both types on the same object, but they would produce totally different things." "*Although, I do know of the.... Protein* Charm.." Merlin knows what it did, though. "Isn't it somethin' to do with health, sir? Anyway... that is classed under transfiguration, despite being a charm." Maybe it transfigured your insides to have lots of protein in it. Eh, that sounded extremely unlikely, but what else could a PROTEIN charm do? Quote: Originally Posted by Snape'sGirlThru&Thru Vashti took a few moments to consider the question before raising her hand. "I think their boundaries do sort of blur or overlap with some spells, or at least they appear to," she began. "For example, the Patronus Charm. It's called a Charm, but when you use it, you conjure up a sort of white energy or magic that usually takes the form of an animal when fully formed. Conjuration is a branch of Transfiguration, so it could be argued that conjuring a Patronus is more of a Transfiguration spell than a charm." Quote: Originally Posted by Jason Potter Weasley William raised his hand. " One of the spells that could cross over between Charms and Transfiguration spells is called Protean Charm" Willaim told the professor. " The reason because it changes the apperance of the item" Willian said to the professor. Quote: Originally Posted by HaRoHeGiNeLu** "Wouldn't any kind of shield charm be...I guess a cross between defence, charms, and transfiguration? Because you're producing something out of nothingness, that's transfiguration. But the shield part is defence. And their called charms. Some of them." That took too much thought. "And that one...that it's a charm...but it changes how something looks..." Ellie didn't and wouldn't know the name of it. Quote: Originally Posted by rnbwxsprinkles "I think there are some spells that are considered charms even though they conjure. Like Orchideus for flowers and Augmenti for water. Although I could be wrong about them being charms." "Before the formation of a proper system of classification, spells were just that." Spells. There hadn't been rigid regulations and definitions in existence, then. "Spells such as aguamenti and aqua eructo were called 'conjuration charms.' Later, as different branches of magic developed and fixed laws were formulated, charms and transfigurational spells were separated, and those two officially came under the heading of the latter. They're an accepted part of Transfigurational magic now, but are still, at times, referred to - and even taught - as 'Conjuration Charms.'" "The same, more or less, goes for the Protean and Shield Charms. Both are accepted as Transfigurational spells, but the use of 'Charm' as a suffix comes from familiarity and common usage. If you choose to study Charms on a higher level, you'll see that advanced defensive magic often consists of more than one part - transfiguration and charms - but the important thing is, both parts are distinct." The charms and transfigurational parts were separate. "If you don't understand all of this right away, don't worry. We'll come back to it in a bit." Quote: Originally Posted by Starbreeze “For example, the Hover Charm might make the target lighter, or maybe immune to gravity, or maybe it summons a little invisible dragon that comes and picks the object up, but the object remains the same.” Eino could come up with a million reasons as to how the Hover Charm might work but the point is it didn’t change the object. “I don’t think some charms could be called transfiguration spells, though.” Just because an Eino might look like a Hugo does not mean a Hugo could be called an Eino. The blur between the two only existed to those who didn’t know any better. “Just because some of us,” Yes, Eino was speaking of himself mostly, “misidentify a charm as a transfiguration doesn’t mean it is so, or could be. Spells are categorized according to their nature, not appearance.” Spoken like a true ~~below average~~ Ravenclaw. "That's an excellent point, Eino." Jared had hoped one of the students would bring it up. "We'll come back to it, in a moment. Take four points for your house." Quote: Originally Posted by nogoodforyou "How about the freezing charm?" Helena suggested, with her hand raised. "It kind of changes the nature of water for example, if we freeze it." Or... not? Well... the water is liquid and blah blah, and after it is frozen, it's... frozen. Not liquid anymore. Jared had to grin. "The standard Freezing Charm renders the target immobile," he reminded. That had been the topic of one of the classes, last year. *"But yes, a charm that changes the physical state of the target can* be considered a gray area." Theoretically speaking, of course. "Take two points." Text Cut*: Trish* Quote: Originally Posted by Trish Uhm the blur between Charms and Transfiguration thought Penny, chewing the end of her quill... "Professor, I think there is a clear difference...I mean A Charm might cause something to flash different colours. It might cause an object to float in the air or even fly. Charms can make a person happy and giggly or dance. In all cases, the object or the person doesn't really change, they just do something unexpected. eg...The Hover Charm (Wingardium Leviosa)... or The Silencing Charm (Silencio) or Cheering Charm Penny stopped to breath.... "But Transfiguration is the art of changing the form and appearance of an object and the vanishing of objects. it's governed by Gamp's Law of Elemental Transfiguration which acknowledges the limits to the power of this branch of magic. Transfiguring can be done to most, if not all objects. eg...Draconifors — Is used to turn a dragon statue into a real dragon that will breathe fire". Penny hoped she had explained herself properly - it made sense to her ! "You're on the right track," Jared nodded. "Transfiguration isn't the art of changing form and appearance, but you're right that there is a difference." Once again, they'd come back to that later. "Take two points for your house." Quote: Originally Posted by MyPatronusIsaMoose Professor Sir, Oakey called him still unsure on how to pronounce his name. I'm a little unsure on this but in Transfiguration class Shaw had us create spells for him to test and change the objects form, and well he demenstrated our's on his cloak. It was supposed to transform into a dog but all it did was make the cloak act like a dog. He was still dissapointed in this event, but it seemed that this was what Disco Toe was talking about with the differences in Charms and Transfigurations. Is it possible that the spell my group made in that class was a charm because The cloak changed it's nature and not its form. Jared had to grin. "I do believe it's the other way around," he said. "If the spell changed the cloak's form, but not it's nature, that makes it a charm. Of course, it's not always possible to categorize a spell without seeing it cast - each spell has a unique mechanism and, until one has studied the mechanism, calling it a charm or a transfigurational spell is a shot in the dark." Quote: Originally Posted by Harry174 "Professor I think that they wil be blured because you transform something in Transfiguration but a charm is where you decided that you want to charm an object or someone, you try and make them fall in love with you or something like that." Simon smiled. "Transformations are a part of Charms, too," Jared pointed out. And? "And we're talking about Charms with a capital C, Simon." The subject, kid, the subject. Quote: Originally Posted by MagicGlitter Ariella raised her hands again. "I can't think of any spells used as charms off the top of my head that could be used as transfigurational spells, no. Because transfiguration is the actual changing of one object to another, while charms is just changing various properties....or parts of an object." Come to think of it, she did have a question. "Could a charm be thought of as a hex as well? A hex is typically used to inflict discomfort or pain, but charms could do that, too, right?" That was a little off topic, but she couldn't help herself when she had a good question. "In general, no." Jared shook his head. "Remember that all hexes are spells. That means they're always charms or transfigurational spells. The difference between a charm and a hex, though, is the purpose they are created to serve. Charms are invented for an actual, reasonable purpose; hexes, to cause discomfort. Think of it this way: you can use a teacup to hit someone on the head, but that doesn't make a teacup a weapon. So while a charm can be used to inflict pain, that doesn't make it a hex." "Good question. Take two points for your house." Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom Macy blinked. She opened her mouth to speak, and then closed it. She did it again. Open. Close. Merlin, she must look like a fish! Anywhoo... Whaaaat was the professor talking about? Spells and... charms... and just, throw transfiguration in there to throw her off some more, why don't you. EURGH. "I. Erm. Yes." was her answer. Honestly, the girl had absolutely no idea what he was talking about. Jared grinned. "Don't worry. It can be confusing, at first." Quote: Originally Posted by Ivy Nienna "I think perhaps the line blurs on spells like the Canary Transfiguration Hex which turns the target into a giant canary thus giving it properties, in this case a beak and feathers to say the least, that the target did not have before, instead of completely transfiguring him or her into an actual small canary." "That would be a hex that falls under the heading of transfiguration," Jared said. "The Canary Transfiguration Hex is meant to transfigure all, not part, of a person. Complete human transfiguration is difficult to perform at the best of times, however, and that means it isn't often that people can use it to its full..." Potential? "Potential," he said, with a bit of a wry smile. The confusion there had more to do with the hex not being successful often, than it blurring lines. "Good example, though. Take two points for Ravenclaw." Quote: Originally Posted by Quick Quotes Quill ‘How about the Vanishing Spell?’, the girl asked. Thinking about it, it wasn’t transfiguration, but not relley charms either. Or, maybe…was it transfiguration if the object disappears? ‘Or…eh…maybe Alohomora?’, the girl tryied again hoping at least this was right. ‘It makes doors open, so it doeas change something at them, right?’ "Vanishing and conjuration are solid transfiguration," Jared said, giving Gwen a faint smile. "The Unlocking Charm isn't considered transfiguration, because it doesn't change the nature of a lock - it affects how it works, on a superficial level. That's the reason alohomora doesn't work on certain kinds of locks: if untransfiguration is involved, the charm fails." Quote: Originally Posted by Presley Black Presley leaned forward and rested her head for a second on the table. Still listening to everyone answering around her, Presley started to get tired. She jerked upright. She COULD NOT sleep during class! That was absolutely unacceptable. But her eyes were so tired. Maybe if she sat up straight, and just rested them for a while...Presley head smacked the desk, hard and she was fully awake. She hadn't even realized that her head was drooping until it hit the desk. She massaged her forehead, there was going to be a bruise. Lucky her. Was he supposed to tell her off for sleeping in class? ... "Alright there?" Jared asked. She didn't need medical attention, did she? Quote: Originally Posted by Jason Potter Weasley " Please, I still want to be freinds" Willaim mouthed to Presley. Riiight. "I'm sure you do, William. This, unfortunately, is not the time." Focus, kid, focus. Text Cut: Everyooone else <3 Quote: Originally Posted by Herminny "Now where the line really draws thin is with incendio because putting something on fire changes w=it's chemical makeup as it burns into the object into a new substance and in transfiguration you are changing an object into a whole new substance and back again. The damage of fire can't be reversed however there are some charms that can. I guess the only true difference is that charms can never never make a living thing into a whole new subatance.", Chloe responded rambling out an answer she hoped made some sense. Quote: Originally Posted by Quick Quotes Quill ‘But there is a spell… Episkey?’, Gwen asked, thinking it would be best if she would shut up already. ‘It is used to heal relatively minor injuries…so it does change something, but not the person entirely.’ Quote: Originally Posted by cheeseStrings "Well, both charming spells and transfiguration spells are used to change the object being charmed or transfigured int something, err, different. But, in Transfiguration you change the object's physical properties or even into something that is totally different, like changing a rock, which has no life in it, into a terrier, which is a living thing. In Charms, you change the behaviour of the object. For example, charming a pen-- I mean, a quill to fly using the Wingardium Leviosa spell. The quill still looks like a normal quill, but a not-charmed quill can't fly, right?" Quote: Originally Posted by Samia 3 points. Orlando was proud of himself, yep yep. Even though he may not be able to gain anymore points in this class. Because then came the hard question. The sixteen year old contemplated for a moment before answering. "Ahh .. Professor I am not really sure if Transfiguration and Charms have boundaries that blur at some point. Because with charm you are just making an object do things while in Transfiguration you end up changing the appearance of the object as well" Quote: Originally Posted by steflegan "Um... I think that a charm changes the behavior of an object or person, while a transfiguration changes that object or person completely into something else. I think." Quote: Originally Posted by GrapehGrape Fallon listened as people threw out some suggestions. She figured she might as well participate in class. Her class participation was really lacking this year and she needed to make up for it. Charms class seemed to be the perfect way to do so. Fallon raised her hand and said, "There are a few Charms out there that can effect the way a person looks, which is a form of Transfiguration." A couple people had said something along those lines, but Fallon really didn't care. Quote: Originally Posted by Samira Malfoy Potter Ooh three points for answering a question? Yay! Samira should answer questions more often. She eagerly raised her hand for the next one. "Professor, I think where the boundaries between Transfiguaration and Charms blur is...for example....in charms, if you change the color of an object. That's not really Transfiguration, because you're not transforming the actual object. Charms like the glamour charm do change the way a person looks, but it is not transfiguring the actual person." She paused a little. "So no, I think Charms and Transfiguration are two separate categories." Quote: Originally Posted by Anna Banana "What about transfiguring, or charming," ...or whatever... "objects into stone?" she asked, her hand in the air. "It's a charm, because you're obviously changing how it looks and what it's capable of," she continued, "but you're also transfiguring the object into something else entirely when it turns to stone..." Quote: Originally Posted by dragon_star "Not any that I can think of on the top of my head..." Savannah said, "What about that dissilusional charm that you taught us last year? I guess it could be in the boundary, it is kind of changing an object..." Savvy hesitated. No, that couldn't be it, its only blending the object to its surroundings. Quote: Originally Posted by ArianaBlack Nika listened to his explanation of what a charm was and decided it would be a good time to take out some parchment and her quill. Notes are never fun, but might as well take a few so she doesn't turn green during the final this term too. She listened to the question and then some response from other students as she thought about her own answer. Well if the two subjects didn't blur then they wouldn't be talking about it now would they? "I guess maybe the two can be really similar." Maybe that's why Nika was awful at both subjects. "There are some charms that change an objects appearance right?" She asked slowly. Hmmm.... This is starting to get confusing. Quote: Originally Posted by fire_faerie Hmm. "Professor, I think the main difference between Charms and Transfiguration is that Transfiguration morphs the actual object into something else whereas Charms just alters its properties... So no," Ryden said, then tried to think of an example she could give. "I suppose, if you take the Permanent Sticking Charm... The charm gave it a quality that enabled it to stick BUT if you transfigure a part of it into superglue or something, then you've actually changed the object. Changing an object's size doesn't change its actual properties, it just makes them all larger... And so on and so forth." Come to think of it, this was a fascinating question if one thought about it deeply enough. Seriously. Quote: Originally Posted by GrapehGrape Fallon listened as people threw out some suggestions. She figured she might as well participate in class. Her class participation was really lacking this year and she needed to make up for it. Charms class seemed to be the perfect way to do so. Fallon raised her hand and said, "There are a few Charms out there that can effect the way a person looks, which is a form of Transfiguration." A couple people had said something along those lines, but Fallon really didn't care. Quote: Originally Posted by Samira Malfoy Potter Ooh three points for answering a question? Yay! Samira should answer questions more often. She eagerly raised her hand for the next one. "Professor, I think where the boundaries between Transfiguaration and Charms blur is...for example....in charms, if you change the color of an object. That's not really Transfiguration, because you're not transforming the actual object. Charms like the glamour charm do change the way a person looks, but it is not transfiguring the actual person." She paused a little. "So no, I think Charms and Transfiguration are two separate categories." Quote: Originally Posted by Deniiz Three points for each?! Mweh, if Evan had known, he would have answered it too, despite like a hundred answers that all said the same. Oh well. Onto the next question, then. Raising his hand, he said "I guess colour-changing charms and the animation charms are also transfiguration. I mean, they change, right?" Right. It was called transfugration when changing inanimate objects into animate ones; and then there were such charms like 'accio' to move the objects... "I guess, the boundary is unclear when they both change something... especially physical traits." Charms or transfiguration, he didn't really care what it was as long as he could do it. Quote: Originally Posted by Berttie-bott Thank God Janet's previous answer was good enough. The next question's pretty tough, she thought. But she gave it a try. She raised her hand and answered, "Well, I think They are quite similar, but they are still diffrent. In Charms, they don't totaly change, only a small part of it. Like what you said, Professor, Giving it wings. For example, If we give a shoe wings, it will still be a shoe, but with wings. But in transfiguration, They change into things that don't even have connection between them. Like a rock into a dog, It doesn't have any connection at all. So, I guess spells studied as charms, couldn't be called transfigurational spells". Please be right, Please be right,Please be right !!, She hoped. Quote: Originally Posted by Kimalia Having finished writing her thoughts down, Kimalia felt she might have a unique way to describe it. "Well, with Transfiguration you're altering more than just the physical appearance but the internal structure as well, such as turning a cat into a mouse." Kimalia continued, "Charms have more to deal with enchantments, the spell Engorgio does alter the physical appearance making the object larger, but the similarity ends there once you realize it's still the same object, just larger." Quote: Originally Posted by insignia57 Brielle stopped for a moment, a bit confused. She listened to the otehr students words and nodded her head in agreement. She somehow seemed confused if she was still supposed to answer, with all the talking going around. Clearing her throat, she spoke just loud enough to be heard, "I think so, professor. For there are spells in Charms that do change the physical appearance of the object, and wouldn't that be as close to Transfiguration as it can get? Like the engorgio and the such, " Quote: Originally Posted by Presley Black Presley raised her hand. "Charms wear off, Professor. When you transfigure something, it stay transfigured until you untransfigure it. Right?" She wasn't absolutely sure on this point, but from her experience, that had been a fundamental difference. Quote: Originally Posted by Annabeth Rachel put her hand up, "Well don't charms sort of go? If you transfigure something, it stays in the same from until it is turned back, I think." Rachel said, she wasnt sure at all, but felt she needed to say something. Quote: Originally Posted by DanialRadFAN01 Taking notes of what he man said, Riley thought hard for a moment about the question that was asked next. After some thinking, the seventh year raised his hand. "Professor, an example of what you are saying would be the charm that changes water into rum or tea, or any other liquid really. Although the change may not be perminent it still transfigures the physical state of the water into another liquid." Lowering his hand Riley was abit amazed by the words that came out of his mouth. Now to hope that they were all forming a right answer. Quote: Originally Posted by sarahb Isabelle raises her hand. "Professor, to charm something is to make a change to something though not normally permenent. When you transfigure something it normally has a permenent effect. For the most part charms are non-permenent transfigurations." Ugh that did not sound right. Quote: Originally Posted by ortalismusicoh Ness had so far been pretty quite, but she thought she knew the answer to the next question so she put up her hand then when it was ger turn said. "Um.. Proffessor I think the difference is that in transfiguration makes the whole object something different including the way it moves, thinks, speaks and so on, where as with charms it only changes one thing of the object!" said Ness hoping that whatever she had just said was right, cause what she said seemed to confuse her just a bit. Quote: Originally Posted by hpfan18 "Professor isn't a charm a spell used to make something happen quickly and efficently? And when you transfigure something you are changing the subject completly?" Annabelle asked as she raised her hand. Quote: Originally Posted by Pokah Face "Well, Professor," he said, "Another example could be the Bat-Bogey Hex, couldn't it? Enlarging your opponent's bogeys would definitely entail the use of a charm. But the fact that the bogeys grow wings and attack your opponent, well that would grant them physical attributes they did not possess before. Thus, it would have similarities to Transfiguration...although the bogeys remain bogeys...." his voice dwindled slightly as he came to the realization at the end. He lowered his hand, hoping his answer was at least somewhat correct. Quote: Originally Posted by Lady of the Lake 'There are charms that change certain aspects in the appearance of objects, such as size, shape or colour, so those could be borderline with Transfiguration, but not really Transfiguration, since objects are just altered and not completely transformed.' the first year Gryffindor replied after putting her hand up. Having done that, however, the girl realized that her answer was pretty much the same as her colleagues's. Oh well. Quote: Originally Posted by LittlePadfoot Molly scribbled down the last of the notes she'd made upon her Professor's words. She tapped her quill a bit against her chin, her eyes looking up to the cieling - which she found was full of beautifully glistening icicles - while thinking hard on an answer to her teacher's question. She then raised her hand a bit slowly and insecure. "I think that charms can only transform part of the object, like for example it's appearence or a special part of it's looks, and not the object completely because that's what Transfiguration does." Quote: Originally Posted by MargyPargy Dulcibella thought for a moment. "What about turning something into wood as that is changing its appearance and its looks." Wait, thats the same thing. "I mean, its appearance and function???" It was a good thing he had asked this question, because it seemed a good number of the students didn't have a clear idea what the differences between Charms and Transfiguration, were. "Right," Jared said. "It seems most of you have the same basic concepts and confusions, so let's discuss a few things before we move on. There are spells that may look as if they blur the lines between Charms and Transfiguration but, the fact is, they do not. Charms and transfigurational spells are both spells. The difference? Charms change an object on a superficial level, while Transfiguration changes its vital functions. Think of it this way: a charm turns a red apple into a green apple, but a transfigurational spells turns it into an orange." The green apple would still be an apple, but the orange would be foreign territory. "Remember that neither is permanent: how long a charm or a transfigurational spell lasts, depends on the caster's intentions, concentration and abilities. " "All conjuration and vanishing spells are a part of Transfiguration. That means spells like Incendio, Aguamenti and Evanesco are all Transfiguration. Much of students' confusion stems from the fact that before the formation of a proper system of classification, spells were just... spells." There hadn't been rigid regulations and definitions in existence, then. "The terms charm, spell and transfiguration were often used inter-changeably. Later, as different branches of magic developed and fixed laws were formulated, charms and transfigurational spells were separated. The old names still remained popular, however, so transfigurational spells like the Protean Charm and the Shield Charm still have 'charm' as a suffix." The 'but they aren't charms' argument was a bit like the 'but sandwiches don't contain sand!' argument, all things considered. *"The most important thing to remember, however, is that you can never* categorize a spell just by knowing what it does."** That was the one thing that none of the students seemed to know. "Each spell has a mechanism and, unless you know about this mechanism, you can't always say if a spell is a charm or not, because you don't know how it's bringing about the change it's bringing about. In more simple words, a spell that turns an apple into an orange might not be transfiguration because it might be making the apple look like an orange. It could be just the appearance that changes and, underneath that appearance, the apple would still be an apple. It could also be an advanced spell, with more than one part, which means it could be executing a series of spells - such as a charm and a transfigurational spell. Confusing, right?" Of course. "Rule of thumb at this stage, is that conjuration and vanishing? Always transfiguration. Something else? Likely to be charms." He gave the class a few minutes to digest and jot down the information, before moving on. "Today, we're going to learn -" Or revise, as the case might be - *"The Glisseo* Charm. Does anyone know what this charm does, or a possible scenario it could be used in?"** Last edited by Maxilocks; 07-07-2011 at 10:36 AM. Reason: eyes typos