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Roselyn · 06-29-2013, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meizzner

Legilimency sure was an interesting subject. Though Occlumency was just as interesting. If you learn one. You basically have to learn the other. Two sides of the same coin.

"Well it is like that saying Don't Think Of A Pink Elephant. Once you hear it all you do is think of pink elephants." It was a cool idea and actually worked. "Which is one way of performing Occlumency. Just think of one thing repeatedly and nothing else. So even if they can read your mind. All they see is Pink Elephants."

Nigel was sure he was talking about Pink Elephants to much. But it did not matter. It seemed all you had to do was bring up ice cream and Romanos got sidetracked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tegz

Really? Cool. West put his hand up again. "A beginner has to learn to clear their mind. My dad says that if you focus on clearing your mind it won't work, like that whole thing where someone says don't think of pink elephants and you start thinking about them?" He glanced at Nigel, who had a slightly different take on that concept, "Like that. He says its easier to use visualisation techniques, like the brick wall thing, or imagine a blank piece of parchment, and every time you think you're slipping and a memory or thought is coming up on your mental parchment, you focus on erasing it. Because its a lot easier to focus on something that is nothing, than it is on nothing when it could easily become something."

Well, these were the kind of explanations that worked best on West, so it was how his dad taught him things.

"And for advanced Occlumency, when you want to have them read fake memories or something or not catch on that you're actually blocking them, you can use the same technique but instead of keeping the mental parchment blank, you can mentally draw or write what you want them to see. Doing all that means you're focusing on something tangible too, so its easier to suppress your emotions and avoid giving the legilimens the upper hand." West added and then put his hand down. Because he'd said a lot and stuff.

Oh, the pink elephant theory! Well, not so much a theory as it is fact. "It is true, this is one way you may begin to learn occlumency. The easiest and more effective way that is, as it ties into later developements of the skill." She paused momentarily to nod in West's direction. He had gone into a little more detail on it. "You never want to forget your basic knowledge of any form of magic."

"Keep it in mind though. When just starting out, the less you think about, such as a piece of parchment or a pink elephant..." How amusing! "...or a brick wall in some cases, the easier it will be for you to keep up the mental image. You don't want come up with too complicated of a thought or large scenarios to think about, especially if not costumed to occlumency and legilimency. You don't want to stress out your mind. It creates little gaps, so to speak, in your thoughts that makes the legilimens job that much easier."

"Suppressing emotions on the other hand, is another story entirely. One that could have a lesson entirely to itself." Chuckling softly, she glanced to her watch to check the time before continuing. "And not what we'll be focusing on today however. Excellent thoughts though, the both of you, Mister Barrington and Mister Odessa."

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaniDiNardo

Lex was soaking up everything the Professor said with avid interest. There wasn't a single moment when her attention span began to wane, in fact, she had actually stopped bouncing where she sat. That was how engrossed she was in this topic. Not surprizing. Everything about this subject fascinated her a little more than it should have.

At the question she slowly raised her hand. This was something else she'd read (shocking, we know) and it could have come in handy on a certain day not too long ago but whatever.

"It's extremely advanced and requires the practitioner to clear their mind so there's nothing for the legilimen to read. It's effective against both the Imperius Curse and Veritaserum but again, it's really advanced. I think it's also a bit dangerous? Isn't it Professor? I've heard people have gone mad trying to resist the Imperius Curse and using this, with all it's concentration...if you're not good enough, you could end up losing your own mind. Isn't that correct?"

And curious thought really.

"Mostly...effective, yes. It aids in the process of resisting the imperius curse and veritaserum." Medea nodded slowly. "Though, yes, there are always risks when it comes to a person's mind, Miss Cambridge. As powerful at it is, it's a rather delicate system and can be easily damaged. It is not unheard of for people to have, damaging problems for lack of better words, when resisting the imperius curse, especially if it was performed poorly. I would have no doubts that the same would happen with legilimency and occlumency."

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpfan18

When Kace read in the textbook a little bit he raised his hand when he got the gist of it, "Professor i know the person practicing the act of Occlumency is the Occlumens and being the Occlumens requires a great deal of will power. Occlumency can be compared to as with resisting the Imperius Curse."

Wow....

That seemed to advance for Kace's tastes. But he will see how he will handle it when the time came. He knew the Imperius Curse was forbidden but it seemed just as powerful which scared Kace a little bit.

"A great deal, yes." Precious hufflepuff was precious. "Good, Mister Lecium."

Quote:

Originally Posted by FearlessLeader19

Jory was certainly enjoying this lesson very much. Now Occlumency would be better to practice as that was the defensive method. He raised his hand again. "The person who has to defend their mind must empty it of all emotion, Professor,'' he said. Gosh. That sounded so impossible. yet it was possible as persons had done it before.

"When it comes to emotion, Mister Stonewall..." she started, tapping her fingers on her knees as she thought about what to say. "There are different methods of Occlumency, and it's not always necessary to clear all emotion. Especially when you're trying to pull off a lie to a very skilled legilimens who will notice the lack of a certain something."

Chuckling softly, she nodded a little anyhow. "However, you aren't wrong either. One should empty their mind of emotion to prevent vulnerability. As such, people practice this a great deal in the earlier stages of their study in the art."

Quote:

Originally Posted by DecemberMoon

Okay well first thing was first. She was glad no one would be trying to do legilimency on her. Especially since she'd been right in thinking you could plant thoughts into other peoples' brains. So, no one was getting in her thoughts today, just in case they might mess something up inside her brain by accident. Which made her think... "Professor, couldn't someone accidentally block their mind from themselves? Maybe if they were trying so hard to make their mind blank or make a fake memory like West said, they might get stuck that way - and end up not knowing who they are, or believing something the fabricated themselves?" That would be awful, unless the memory you made up was a really good one, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad. "Also, professor, I don't know if I agree that legilimency is only for personal gain. Couldn't it be used to help patients who have memory loss or head trauma with temporary amnesia or something? If someone was really good at legilimency they could try to get the memories back for them, unlock them so to speak." Or maybe it didn't work that way, but Eliza would like to look at the bright side and hope that it would. Also, speaking of bright sides - that made her think of sun, and sunglasses, and summer, and ice cream. So could they have some ice cream and think about their favorite flavor and then everyone could try to mind read that out of them? Hmmm?

"Anything can happen when diving into a person's mind. Our thoughts and memories are always naturally changing as it is. A memory we have today from say, a week to five years ago, will not be exactly how it turned out to be back then. Even without magic we can force our memories to change. It's just a matter of time." Which was interesting enough. "You throw magic into the mix of what already comes naturally, and who knows what could happen. I don't doubt that it's possible for a memory to become...stuck, as you say."

On the change of topic however, Medea's eyebrows raised. Oh! "Forgive me, Miss Dawnsel." she smiled apologetically. "I believe my own definition of personal gain may have been misunderstood. Umm...I know there have been attempts to use legilimency with issues such as memory loss and amnesia. How effective it was, I do not know. My knowledge on that particular topic is a little outdated."

Nooo, she wasn't calling herself old either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Govoni

Careful, Professor.

All this talk of it being difficult and a tremendous feat made the Slytherin Captain want to try it. Not that he didn't already want to try it before or whatever...but he didn't need the encourage of a challenge.

Dylan liked being challenged...and worked best that way.

"Also...IF you were skilled enough, couldn't you go so far as to push thoughts into someone else's mind. Like...do a reverse?" He'd read this somewhere..."That'd go along with someone getting in your mind and causing you pain and such, I suppose."

You know, come to think of it...

........They were actually going to DO this? Dylan paused, a slow grin forming on his face. THIS was quickly turning into his favorite Defense lesson ever...besides the one about shields. That lesson had just been...too awesome.

He cleared his throat.

"It's just the same, yea? Focus, concentration...like you'd exercise with all magic...Clearing your mind and not thinking about thoughts that might be "under attack"."

Under attack because that's what a personal invasion was.

It was decided. If she found time in the year, she was throwing an ice cream party. "Well, it's not impossible. That does require a bit more work to achieve, and rather dangerous in itself for the legilimens, not to mention the occlumens. There's always the chance of permanent damage occuring." Nooooot impossible though.

.......

Medea nodded, a smile appearing on her face. "Doesn't sound so hard, does it? Just focus and concentration." It was usually like so when reading something and then actually doing it, wasn't it? "Though, essentially, yes."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unalii

Taylor smiled at what the professor said about her answer then listened as she went on. Tay raised her hand again, "Professor...would clearing your mind then imagining... say... steel walls up in your mind then focusing on protecting it be the way to doing it?"

"Steel walls is one way to go, yes. Whatever kind of wall you wish actually." Steel, brick, hay, mud...just whatever got the job done. "The act of imagining anything alone, other than your memories, will aid you in keeping those memories to yourself. Good, Miss McIntyre."

Quote:

Originally Posted by McFeisty

Mika just blinked a bit, and listened to what everyone had been saying. This was going to be an interesting class right? She bit her lip and glanced at the Professor and then to the other students.

What was occlumency? She thought to herself and chewed on the end of her quill for a moment. Oh, ew…feathers. EWWWWW. That tasted gross. SO gross. Pulling a face she just sat there.

Raising her hand, “Professor, occlumency is the skill one can use to compartmentalize ones emotoins’ or prevent someone from discovering their thoughts or memories – if you are good enough at the compartmentalizing of emotions and stuff you can even plant false memories so as to confuse the person using Legilimency.” She nodded excitedly. Her cousin was SO a memory retriever for the American branch of the Ministry of Magic.

The Ravenclaws were on fiiiire!

And using particularly big words. Ahem. Everyone in here knew what compartmentalize meant, right? Hoping for the best! "Riigght. Planting false memories is rather tricky business, yet completely possible with occlumency. Good, Miss Johanson."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry174

Laura looked at the Professor, she was so confused now, wasn't it the Professor job to teach the class and not to confuse poor students because if it was she was failing badly. "Well then, eh they." Laura was struggling here. "Oh eh they would." Laura felt like being silly and trying to think of away out of this but she would she would behave.

Laura took a deep breath and tried her hardest to think of the answer, she decided that she would say it how she would do it. "Well if that was the case then I would say that they would somehow try and make the person too relaxed for their own good, so like if it was me I would try and make them so relaxed that they don't know what is going on." Laura thought that probably would work.

Laura then listed to the rest of what the Professor was saying and raised her hand. "That is where you have to try and stop your mind from being taken over, it's really hard because you have to clear your mind, so that there is nothing in there but as I said it's a really hard feat to achieve." Laura thought it was nearly impossible to do but it was.

Sounded more as if Laura suggested she'd slip the person something before using legilimency. Which, well, it wasn't a terrible idea, if she were the legilimens trying to invade someone’s mind.

"Exactly." She nodded, smiling to the young Puff. "Good, Miss Hyde."

Quote:

Originally Posted by the fastest seeker

Listening to everything that was said, Cassia took her time to process it all. Legilimency sounded both a big deal and a great kind of magic that to master shows how powerful the wizard but also it is kinda evil destructive to the human mind. As for occlumency it really did sound like the solution and an advanced level of magic as well.

After a couple of students answered, the Slytherin raised her hand and spoke. "Since occlumency is kind of the opposite of Legilimency , naturally it also needs concentration and a huge deal of it. And maybe to prevent the legilimens from succeeding; the person ,whose mind is about to be penetrated, should be more concentrated than the legilimens." She said. It was her opinion, though. "And since it's probably very hard to perfect, one can practice controlling their own minds, like to hide certain information and keep focusing on unimportant things," That'd be easier probably.

SO! What were they going to do? Did it have to do anything with that mechanical bird?

Here was something that had yet to be brought up, and she was thankful it had. "Right. It may not seem necessary to think about, but the occlumens should, well for lack of better words, have better skill in the area than the legilimens; the very minimum being exactly equal. Or, more concentrated, in your words. Otherwise the legilimens will find a way to navigate around your defenses."

Shifting so she was a bit more comfortable on her mat, Medea nodded. "The thing about occlumency, is that you don't need to be anywhere special or use any special spells to achieve it. You can honestly practice anywhere at any time. Though the quieter the area, the better practice it will be for you." Considering the whole pink elephant idea that Nigel and West spoke about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talikins

As for the Professor's question on details the Hufflepuff raised her hand. "I think Occlumency is pretty much performed how everyone said. It needs concentration and of course will power. I also think perseverance is important, because you mustn't give up in blocking your mind, but I think once you start and achieve in creating a brick wall it becomes easier to maintain the blocking?" She wouldn't know too much what it was like, but she guessed. In most cases once the hardest part was over, things were easier...but then was the beginning part of occlumency really the hardest? Pout.

"You would think so, wouldn't you?" She smiled and slowly nodded. "When it comes to legilimency though, you should keep in mind that the legilimens is always pushing against your limits. You'll quickly find yourself losing the battle if you start letting your guard down because you've achieved blocking your mind for the moment. Perseverance is an excellent word to be associated with occlumency. What you could say, is that it becomes easier over time to create that brick wall instantly, other than taking the time to focus and concentrate. You're personal battle with a legilimens however would depend on his or her skill versus yours."

Quote:

Originally Posted by hermionesclone

... Oh! They were going to be practising the art of occlumency? ... Yeah, he wasn't going to do well in that. Too much thinking, way too much! But... question. The boy paused for a couple of minutes before raising his hand in the air. "Professor? If how skilled you are in Legilimency can affect how far you delve into someone's mind, can your skill level with Occlumency also affect how great of an Occlumens you are?" ... Did that... make sense?

"I mean..." Let's answer the question, yeah Summers? "There are different forms, right? You have the one that people have mentioned where you clear all thoughts and emotions but then you also have the type where the Occlumens will suppress the emotions and thoughts that would contradict what they want the Legilimens to believe." ... Or... something.

Thank goodness Alec explained himself. She’d have thought that question would have had a very obvious answer. "Right. During the…journey, I should say, of becoming a master occlumens, it will become easier to pin point just which memories and emotions to suppress instead of trying to block them all entirely. Although, that particular skill won't come without hard work and great dedication to achieving it. Much like it is with legilimency."

Quote:

Originally Posted by CassiopeiaAKTF

Since Daichi hadn't answered the previous question since he had been deep in thought, he decided to try and answer the next one. He listened while scratching his head before raising his hand in the air.

"I think you need to be able to concentrate really REALLY well in trying to block your mind." He started to debate with himself whether he wanted to participate in the activity or not. Since concentrating had never been his strongest point. But..he was also a Prefect ~~yes, he had not forgotten about that badge~~ and he had the feeling that at least the Leaders should try... "Also, i read you need to try have no emotions cause it will be easier for the other break the defences when you're in an emotional state"

"It's not so much about having no emotions altogether. What you don't want to happen is letting them take control of you; which is mainly why so many people have trouble with this particular step in occlumency, than with just suppressing a memory or thought form. It is easier to try and restrain all emotion altogether, especially when just starting out, there’s no doubt about that…though not entirely necessary. Particularly when trying to deal with a legilimens searching for truth or lies, you’d want to conceal the obvious feelings that would contradict what you’re saying, however, to have your lie go perfectly unnoticed, you would need emotion. Lack of it will just tip off the legilimens, particularly if they’re very well skilled in the art." Drifting to a stop with her words, her gaze seemed to be focused OVER the prefect’s shoulder for a moment, before her attention was back onto him. Ahem. "Good thoughts though, Mister Katharos."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luna_Midnight

Occlumency well of course concentration, lots of it. Clearing the mind would also help. As she thought of some ideas she listened to her classmates as well. Clearing yourself of all emotion.

After a couple of students answered, Nerida raised her hand and spoke. "I think Occlumency would need major amounts of concentration to prevent the Legilimens from entering their mind. Like some of the others said about clearing all emotion, I think you would have to clear out everything. The only thoughts you are thinking about is concentration on blocking the legilimens out."

"Exactly. While there are a few different ways of doing so, in general, your task is blocking the legilimens. Excellent, Miss Eventide." Medea nodded and beamed at the sixth year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakemetotheBurrow

Ice cream and pink elephant talk? Ella was trying to pay attention here, people. Now all she wanted was an ice cream sundae and to ride a pink elephant. Totally normal wishes, obviously. But really...she was hungry now. Really hungry. BEAM.

Keeping ones mind completely blank was hard business and Ella didn't think she'd ever be able to do anything like that. Her mind was just filled with too many things at any given time and clearing it out would be exhausting.

"Yoga would probably help in preparing for something like this, Professor." Not that she was a fan but still. ~~No boat poses, please.~~ "It aids in the clearing of your mind and the centering yourself, both things you'd need to do to master occlumency."

…….

If she could beam, she would. Though hearing a student actually mention yoga in a useful way was shockiiing! "It most certainly would." She finally said, slooooowly nodding, a smile starting to grow. That answer happened. She heard it! "Very excellent thinking, Miss Wheatborn."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lollipop!

She was FROWNING at her mini-desk and picking at a loose thread in her mat.

She just didn't like that idea of knowing how to get into someone's mind. Great power and great responsibility, right? She didn't want to know how to do it. Treat others the way you wanted to be treated. That's what Mom always said. Blue definitely did not want people reading her mind so she wasn't going to read theirs.

"Professor...this isn't going to be on the OWLs, right?"

'Cos then she was DEFINITELY participating.

Oh? How tempting it was to say yes. "No, Miss Gracae. This won’t be on the OWLs."

….

"And it won't be on the NEWTs either."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermione Lily Potter

No legilimency but they could have a chance to do occlumency. Now this was gonna be a neat lesson.

Lily made sure to take notes on all the stuff Professor Romanos had commented about in regards to legilimency. It just sounded so cool. And definitely still more cool than occlumency. The more the fifth year thought about it, the more she wanted to learn legilimency. However, she knew that she needed to pay attention in the lesson now if she wanted to learn anything. Luckily for her, she paid enough attention to hear the question this time. After raising her hand, Lily waited until she was called on and gave her answer. "It's kinda like shutting your brain off....." She said before muttering, "Kinda like what my dad says I do over the summer."... Right professor?

Did he really? "I…suppose?" She even questioned herself, chuckling softly from the Ravenclaw’s answer. "Generally…in a way…I suppose. Good thought, Miss Potter."

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemon

One of her favorite things about asking questions and then having the questioned topic come up later in class was that she could just recycle the answer the professor had given her. Perks of being inquisitive, see? "I know the teachings and skills of Occlumency can help resist the effects of being Imperius'd," Alice stated, using Romanos' answer word for word. "It focuses loads intent and willpower, which is necessary for both the casting and resisting of that curse. So it's helpful, see?"

What? That was definitely her own answer.

Definitely.

Oh, she saaaaaw what Alice was doing there. She was also still a little huffed over the fact that the Gryffindor LEFT her in her office, thinking that Barnabus was a giant rat. Goodness! How that even happened, she had no clue. "Good, Miss Fischer. Good thinking."

Yeesss, good thinking, because those were HER words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaverickMagpie

Weeeeeeellllllllll Tobias had nothing to really add SO he figured he'd go ahead and ask something.

"With the occluthingywotsit," he began. [/b]"Is there a way that you can kind of train your mind so that you're always doing the occudeythingy? Because I guess it's like a video game... at the start it's so difficult, and then you can practically play it with your eyes shut."[/b] Speaking of eyes, Tobias' gleamed. Video games, yeah... Wait, no... FOCUS! "What I mean is like, as you get better at it, is it possible to kind of always be like 'shields up', at least to a certain extent? Or is that like totally impossible 'cause you need to be totally focused to be mind-blocking all the time?"

That'd be super cool though, and when you wanted to you could really focus and then be proper good at mind-blocking.

Mind-blocking... that was a lot easier to say than that other word.

Oh! What a question, indeed.

"That would be a bit difficult to do, honestly." She chuckled lightly. Not at the young boy’s answer though, goodness no. "Truthfully, I haven't heard of anyone who was able to. To always be using occlumency could prevent you from living your daily life. It does require a certain amount of focus, if not all during the earlier stages of learning. I wouldn't recommend trying it, but… you know, if someone would like to go on in their life having their 'shields up' as you put it…" Which was an utterly precious thing to say. Precious Hufflepuffs! "Then there’s nothing really stopping them."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassirin

Hmm. Mo kicked his feet against the mat lightly as he considered the current topic of conversation. They were poking around in brains... hopefully just their own brains today. There were things in other people's brains that Mo desperately didn't want to know. At all.

"Professor, if the Imperius is considered illegal because it imposes on someone's will, why isn't Legilimancy considered illegal? You just said that there's no redeeming value to it - the only use for Legilimancy is personal gain, plus it has so much potential for harm."

"Honestly, I'm not sure. I don't make the laws, Mister Branxton." The professor shrugged up her shoulders. Eep! "As I was saying to Mister Stark before, my guess would be it depended on the governments and their take on it. You would have to ask them about it. If you want, you can write our British government a letter, see if you get a reply back. Would have no problem sending one off."

After the students had their say on the topic, Medea quickly took another check on the time. Oh, they should probably get started soon. "Concentration, intent, and thanks to Miss Dixon, we're going to add the word perseverance into the mix. These are generally the three things you will be focusing on during our activity today."

"But before I go into more detail about, does anyone have any questions?"

06-29-2013, 08:13 PM	#106 (permalink)
Roselyn DMAC & DoM Kappa Join Date: May 2009 Location: Western US Posts: 14,683 x9 x8	Super Slytherin Buddy \| \| ⅓ She-Snake Trio \| \| a normal girl with normal knees Quote: Originally Posted by Meizzner Legilimency sure was an interesting subject. Though Occlumency was just as interesting. If you learn one. You basically have to learn the other. Two sides of the same coin. "Well it is like that saying Don't Think Of A Pink Elephant. Once you hear it all you do is think of pink elephants." It was a cool idea and actually worked. "Which is one way of performing Occlumency. Just think of one thing repeatedly and nothing else. So even if they can read your mind. All they see is Pink Elephants." Nigel was sure he was talking about Pink Elephants to much. But it did not matter. It seemed all you had to do was bring up ice cream and Romanos got sidetracked. Quote: Originally Posted by Tegz Really? Cool. West put his hand up again. "A beginner has to learn to clear their mind. My dad says that if you focus on clearing your mind it won't work, like that whole thing where someone says don't think of pink elephants and you start thinking about them?" He glanced at Nigel, who had a slightly different take on that concept, "Like that. He says its easier to use visualisation techniques, like the brick wall thing, or imagine a blank piece of parchment, and every time you think you're slipping and a memory or thought is coming up on your mental parchment, you focus on erasing it. Because its a lot easier to focus on something that is nothing, than it is on nothing when it could easily become something." Well, these were the kind of explanations that worked best on West, so it was how his dad taught him things. "And for advanced Occlumency, when you want to have them read fake memories or something or not catch on that you're actually blocking them, you can use the same technique but instead of keeping the mental parchment blank, you can mentally draw or write what you want them to see. Doing all that means you're focusing on something tangible too, so its easier to suppress your emotions and avoid giving the legilimens the upper hand." West added and then put his hand down. Because he'd said a lot and stuff. Oh, the pink elephant theory! Well, not so much a theory as it is fact. "It is true, this is one way you may begin to learn occlumency. The easiest and more effective way that is, as it ties into later developements of the skill." She paused momentarily to nod in West's direction. He had gone into a little more detail on it. "You never want to forget your basic knowledge of any form of magic." "Keep it in mind though. When just starting out, the less you think about, such as a piece of parchment or a pink elephant..." How amusing! "...or a brick wall in some cases, the easier it will be for you to keep up the mental image. You don't want come up with too complicated of a thought or large scenarios to think about, especially if not costumed to occlumency and legilimency. You don't want to stress out your mind. It creates little gaps, so to speak, in your thoughts that makes the legilimens job that much easier." "Suppressing emotions on the other hand, is another story entirely. One that could have a lesson entirely to itself." Chuckling softly, she glanced to her watch to check the time before continuing. "And not what we'll be focusing on today however. Excellent thoughts though, the both of you, Mister Barrington and Mister Odessa." Quote: Originally Posted by DaniDiNardo Lex was soaking up everything the Professor said with avid interest. There wasn't a single moment when her attention span began to wane, in fact, she had actually stopped bouncing where she sat. That was how engrossed she was in this topic. Not surprizing. Everything about this subject fascinated her a little more than it should have. At the question she slowly raised her hand. This was something else she'd read (shocking, we know) and it could have come in handy on a certain day not too long ago but whatever. "It's extremely advanced and requires the practitioner to clear their mind so there's nothing for the legilimen to read. It's effective against both the Imperius Curse and Veritaserum but again, it's really advanced. I think it's also a bit dangerous? Isn't it Professor? I've heard people have gone mad trying to resist the Imperius Curse and using this, with all it's concentration...if you're not good enough, you could end up losing your own mind. Isn't that correct?" And curious thought really. "Mostly...effective, yes. It aids in the process of resisting the imperius curse and veritaserum." Medea nodded slowly. "Though, yes, there are always risks when it comes to a person's mind, Miss Cambridge. As powerful at it is, it's a rather delicate system and can be easily damaged. It is not unheard of for people to have, damaging problems for lack of better words, when resisting the imperius curse, especially if it was performed poorly. I would have no doubts that the same would happen with legilimency and occlumency." Quote: Originally Posted by hpfan18 When Kace read in the textbook a little bit he raised his hand when he got the gist of it, "Professor i know the person practicing the act of Occlumency is the Occlumens and being the Occlumens requires a great deal of will power. Occlumency can be compared to as with resisting the Imperius Curse." Wow.... That seemed to advance for Kace's tastes. But he will see how he will handle it when the time came. He knew the Imperius Curse was forbidden but it seemed just as powerful which scared Kace a little bit. "A great deal, yes." Precious hufflepuff was precious. "Good, Mister Lecium." Quote: Originally Posted by FearlessLeader19 Jory was certainly enjoying this lesson very much. Now Occlumency would be better to practice as that was the defensive method. He raised his hand again. "The person who has to defend their mind must empty it of all emotion, Professor,'' he said. Gosh. That sounded so impossible. yet it was possible as persons had done it before. "When it comes to emotion, Mister Stonewall..." she started, tapping her fingers on her knees as she thought about what to say. "There are different methods of Occlumency, and it's not always necessary to clear all emotion. Especially when you're trying to pull off a lie to a very skilled legilimens who will notice the lack of a certain something." Chuckling softly, she nodded a little anyhow. "However, you aren't wrong either. One should empty their mind of emotion to prevent vulnerability. As such, people practice this a great deal in the earlier stages of their study in the art." Quote: Originally Posted by DecemberMoon Okay well first thing was first. She was glad no one would be trying to do legilimency on her. Especially since she'd been right in thinking you could plant thoughts into other peoples' brains. So, no one was getting in her thoughts today, just in case they might mess something up inside her brain by accident. Which made her think... "Professor, couldn't someone accidentally block their mind from themselves? Maybe if they were trying so hard to make their mind blank or make a fake memory like West said, they might get stuck that way - and end up not knowing who they are, or believing something the fabricated themselves?" That would be awful, unless the memory you made up was a really good one, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad. "Also, professor, I don't know if I agree that legilimency is only for personal gain. Couldn't it be used to help patients who have memory loss or head trauma with temporary amnesia or something? If someone was really good at legilimency they could try to get the memories back for them, unlock them so to speak." Or maybe it didn't work that way, but Eliza would like to look at the bright side and hope that it would. Also, speaking of bright sides - that made her think of sun, and sunglasses, and summer, and ice cream. So could they have some ice cream and think about their favorite flavor and then everyone could try to mind read that out of them? Hmmm? "Anything can happen when diving into a person's mind. Our thoughts and memories are always naturally changing as it is. A memory we have today from say, a week to five years ago, will not be exactly how it turned out to be back then. Even without magic we can force our memories to change. It's just a matter of time." Which was interesting enough. "You throw magic into the mix of what already comes naturally, and who knows what could happen. I don't doubt that it's possible for a memory to become...stuck, as you say." On the change of topic however, Medea's eyebrows raised. Oh! "Forgive me, Miss Dawnsel." she smiled apologetically. "I believe my own definition of personal gain may have been misunderstood. Umm...I know there have been attempts to use legilimency with issues such as memory loss and amnesia. How effective it was, I do not know. My knowledge on that particular topic is a little outdated." Nooo, she wasn't calling herself old either. Quote: Originally Posted by Govoni Careful, Professor. All this talk of it being difficult and a tremendous feat made the Slytherin Captain want to try it. Not that he didn't already want to try it before or whatever...but he didn't need the encourage of a challenge. Dylan liked being challenged...and worked best that way. "Also...IF you were skilled enough, couldn't you go so far as to push thoughts into someone else's mind. Like...do a reverse?" He'd read this somewhere..."That'd go along with someone getting in your mind and causing you pain and such, I suppose." You know, come to think of it... ........They were actually going to DO this? Dylan paused, a slow grin forming on his face. THIS was quickly turning into his favorite Defense lesson ever...besides the one about shields. That lesson had just been...too awesome. He cleared his throat. "It's just the same, yea? Focus, concentration...like you'd exercise with all magic...Clearing your mind and not thinking about thoughts that might be "under attack"." Under attack because that's what a personal invasion was. It was decided. If she found time in the year, she was throwing an ice cream party. "Well, it's not impossible. That does require a bit more work to achieve, and rather dangerous in itself for the legilimens, not to mention the occlumens. There's always the chance of permanent damage occuring." Nooooot impossible though. ....... Medea nodded, a smile appearing on her face. "Doesn't sound so hard, does it? Just focus and concentration." It was usually like so when reading something and then actually doing it, wasn't it? "Though, essentially, yes." Quote: Originally Posted by Unalii Taylor smiled at what the professor said about her answer then listened as she went on. Tay raised her hand again, "Professor...would clearing your mind then imagining... say... steel walls up in your mind then focusing on protecting it be the way to doing it?" "Steel walls is one way to go, yes. Whatever kind of wall you wish actually." Steel, brick, hay, mud...just whatever got the job done. "The act of imagining anything alone, other than your memories, will aid you in keeping those memories to yourself. Good, Miss McIntyre." Quote: Originally Posted by McFeisty Mika just blinked a bit, and listened to what everyone had been saying. This was going to be an interesting class right? She bit her lip and glanced at the Professor and then to the other students. What was occlumency? She thought to herself and chewed on the end of her quill for a moment. Oh, ew…feathers. EWWWWW. That tasted gross. SO gross. Pulling a face she just sat there. Raising her hand, “Professor, occlumency is the skill one can use to compartmentalize ones emotoins’ or prevent someone from discovering their thoughts or memories – if you are good enough at the compartmentalizing of emotions and stuff you can even plant false memories so as to confuse the person using Legilimency.” She nodded excitedly. Her cousin was SO a memory retriever for the American branch of the Ministry of Magic. The Ravenclaws were on fiiiire! And using particularly big words. Ahem. Everyone in here knew what compartmentalize meant, right? Hoping for the best! "Riigght. Planting false memories is rather tricky business, yet completely possible with occlumency. Good, Miss Johanson." Quote: Originally Posted by Harry174 Laura looked at the Professor, she was so confused now, wasn't it the Professor job to teach the class and not to confuse poor students because if it was she was failing badly. "Well then, eh they." Laura was struggling here. "Oh eh they would." Laura felt like being silly and trying to think of away out of this but she would she would behave. Laura took a deep breath and tried her hardest to think of the answer, she decided that she would say it how she would do it. "Well if that was the case then I would say that they would somehow try and make the person too relaxed for their own good, so like if it was me I would try and make them so relaxed that they don't know what is going on." Laura thought that probably would work. Laura then listed to the rest of what the Professor was saying and raised her hand. "That is where you have to try and stop your mind from being taken over, it's really hard because you have to clear your mind, so that there is nothing in there but as I said it's a really hard feat to achieve." Laura thought it was nearly impossible to do but it was. Sounded more as if Laura suggested she'd slip the person something before using legilimency. Which, well, it wasn't a terrible idea, if she were the legilimens trying to invade someone’s mind. "Exactly." She nodded, smiling to the young Puff. "Good, Miss Hyde." Quote: Originally Posted by the fastest seeker Listening to everything that was said, Cassia took her time to process it all. Legilimency sounded both a big deal and a great kind of magic that to master shows how powerful the wizard but also it is kinda evil destructive to the human mind. As for occlumency it really did sound like the solution and an advanced level of magic as well. After a couple of students answered, the Slytherin raised her hand and spoke. "Since occlumency is kind of the opposite of Legilimency , naturally it also needs concentration and a huge deal of it. And maybe to prevent the legilimens from succeeding; the person ,whose mind is about to be penetrated, should be more concentrated than the legilimens." She said. It was her opinion, though. "And since it's probably very hard to perfect, one can practice controlling their own minds, like to hide certain information and keep focusing on unimportant things," That'd be easier probably. SO! What were they going to do? Did it have to do anything with that mechanical bird? Here was something that had yet to be brought up, and she was thankful it had. "Right. It may not seem necessary to think about, but the occlumens should, well for lack of better words, have better skill in the area than the legilimens; the very minimum being exactly equal. Or, more concentrated, in your words. Otherwise the legilimens will find a way to navigate around your defenses." Shifting so she was a bit more comfortable on her mat, Medea nodded. "The thing about occlumency, is that you don't need to be anywhere special or use any special spells to achieve it. You can honestly practice anywhere at any time. Though the quieter the area, the better practice it will be for you." Considering the whole pink elephant idea that Nigel and West spoke about. Quote: Originally Posted by Talikins As for the Professor's question on details the Hufflepuff raised her hand. "I think Occlumency is pretty much performed how everyone said. It needs concentration and of course will power. I also think perseverance is important, because you mustn't give up in blocking your mind, but I think once you start and achieve in creating a brick wall it becomes easier to maintain the blocking?" She wouldn't know too much what it was like, but she guessed. In most cases once the hardest part was over, things were easier...but then was the beginning part of occlumency really the hardest? Pout. "You would think so, wouldn't you?" She smiled and slowly nodded. "When it comes to legilimency though, you should keep in mind that the legilimens is always pushing against your limits. You'll quickly find yourself losing the battle if you start letting your guard down because you've achieved blocking your mind for the moment. Perseverance is an excellent word to be associated with occlumency. What you could say, is that it becomes easier over time to create that brick wall instantly, other than taking the time to focus and concentrate. You're personal battle with a legilimens however would depend on his or her skill versus yours." Quote: Originally Posted by hermionesclone ... Oh! They were going to be practising the art of occlumency? ... Yeah, he wasn't going to do well in that. Too much thinking, way too much! But... question. The boy paused for a couple of minutes before raising his hand in the air. "Professor? If how skilled you are in Legilimency can affect how far you delve into someone's mind, can your skill level with Occlumency also affect how great of an Occlumens you are?" ... Did that... make sense? "I mean..." Let's answer the question, yeah Summers? "There are different forms, right? You have the one that people have mentioned where you clear all thoughts and emotions but then you also have the type where the Occlumens will suppress the emotions and thoughts that would contradict what they want the Legilimens to believe." ... Or... something. Thank goodness Alec explained himself. She’d have thought that question would have had a very obvious answer. "Right. During the…journey, I should say, of becoming a master occlumens, it will become easier to pin point just which memories and emotions to suppress instead of trying to block them all entirely. Although, that particular skill won't come without hard work and great dedication to achieving it. Much like it is with legilimency." Quote: Originally Posted by CassiopeiaAKTF Since Daichi hadn't answered the previous question since he had been deep in thought, he decided to try and answer the next one. He listened while scratching his head before raising his hand in the air. "I think you need to be able to concentrate really REALLY well in trying to block your mind." He started to debate with himself whether he wanted to participate in the activity or not. Since concentrating had never been his strongest point. But..he was also a Prefect ~~yes, he had not forgotten about that badge~~ and he had the feeling that at least the Leaders should try... "Also, i read you need to try have no emotions cause it will be easier for the other break the defences when you're in an emotional state" "It's not so much about having no emotions altogether. What you don't want to happen is letting them take control of you; which is mainly why so many people have trouble with this particular step in occlumency, than with just suppressing a memory or thought form. It is easier to try and restrain all emotion altogether, especially when just starting out, there’s no doubt about that…though not entirely necessary. Particularly when trying to deal with a legilimens searching for truth or lies, you’d want to conceal the obvious feelings that would contradict what you’re saying, however, to have your lie go perfectly unnoticed, you would need emotion. Lack of it will just tip off the legilimens, particularly if they’re very well skilled in the art." Drifting to a stop with her words, her gaze seemed to be focused OVER the prefect’s shoulder for a moment, before her attention was back onto him. Ahem. "Good thoughts though, Mister Katharos." Quote: Originally Posted by Luna_Midnight Occlumency well of course concentration, lots of it. Clearing the mind would also help. As she thought of some ideas she listened to her classmates as well. Clearing yourself of all emotion. After a couple of students answered, Nerida raised her hand and spoke. "I think Occlumency would need major amounts of concentration to prevent the Legilimens from entering their mind. Like some of the others said about clearing all emotion, I think you would have to clear out everything. The only thoughts you are thinking about is concentration on blocking the legilimens out." "Exactly. While there are a few different ways of doing so, in general, your task is blocking the legilimens. Excellent, Miss Eventide." Medea nodded and beamed at the sixth year. Quote: Originally Posted by TakemetotheBurrow Ice cream and pink elephant talk? Ella was trying to pay attention here, people. Now all she wanted was an ice cream sundae and to ride a pink elephant. Totally normal wishes, obviously. But really...she was hungry now. Really hungry. BEAM. Keeping ones mind completely blank was hard business and Ella didn't think she'd ever be able to do anything like that. Her mind was just filled with too many things at any given time and clearing it out would be exhausting. "Yoga would probably help in preparing for something like this, Professor." Not that she was a fan but still. ~~No boat poses, please.~~ "It aids in the clearing of your mind and the centering yourself, both things you'd need to do to master occlumency." ……. If she could beam, she would. Though hearing a student actually mention yoga in a useful way was shockiiing! "It most certainly would." She finally said, slooooowly nodding, a smile starting to grow. That answer happened. She heard it! "Very excellent thinking, Miss Wheatborn." Quote: Originally Posted by Lollipop! She was FROWNING at her mini-desk and picking at a loose thread in her mat. She just didn't like that idea of knowing how to get into someone's mind. Great power and great responsibility, right? She didn't want to know how to do it. Treat others the way you wanted to be treated. That's what Mom always said. Blue definitely did not want people reading her mind so she wasn't going to read theirs. "Professor...this isn't going to be on the OWLs, right?" 'Cos then she was DEFINITELY participating. Oh? How tempting it was to say yes. "No, Miss Gracae. This won’t be on the OWLs." …. "And it won't be on the NEWTs either." Quote: Originally Posted by Hermione Lily Potter No legilimency but they could have a chance to do occlumency. Now this was gonna be a neat lesson. Lily made sure to take notes on all the stuff Professor Romanos had commented about in regards to legilimency. It just sounded so cool. And definitely still more cool than occlumency. The more the fifth year thought about it, the more she wanted to learn legilimency. However, she knew that she needed to pay attention in the lesson now if she wanted to learn anything. Luckily for her, she paid enough attention to hear the question this time. After raising her hand, Lily waited until she was called on and gave her answer. "It's kinda like shutting your brain off....." She said before muttering, *"Kinda like what my dad says I do over the summer."... Right professor? Did he really? "I…suppose?" She even questioned herself, chuckling softly from the Ravenclaw’s answer. "Generally…in a way…I suppose. Good thought, Miss Potter." Quote: Originally Posted by lemon* One of her favorite things about asking questions and then having the questioned topic come up later in class was that she could just recycle the answer the professor had given her. Perks of being inquisitive, see? "I know the teachings and skills of Occlumency can help resist the effects of being Imperius'd," Alice stated, using Romanos' answer word for word. "It focuses loads intent and willpower, which is necessary for both the casting and resisting of that curse. So it's helpful, see?" What? That was definitely her own answer. Definitely. Oh, she saaaaaw what Alice was doing there. She was also still a little huffed over the fact that the Gryffindor LEFT her in her office, thinking that Barnabus was a giant rat. Goodness! How that even happened, she had no clue. "Good, Miss Fischer. Good thinking." Yeesss, good thinking, because those were HER words. Quote: Originally Posted by MaverickMagpie Weeeeeeellllllllll Tobias had nothing to really add SO he figured he'd go ahead and ask something. "With the occluthingywotsit," he began. [/b]"Is there a way that you can kind of train your mind so that you're always doing the occudeythingy? Because I guess it's like a video game... at the start it's so difficult, and then you can practically play it with your eyes shut."[/b] Speaking of eyes, Tobias' gleamed. Video games, yeah... Wait, no... FOCUS! "What I mean is like, as you get better at it, is it possible to kind of always be like 'shields up', at least to a certain extent? Or is that like totally impossible 'cause you need to be totally focused to be mind-blocking all the time?" That'd be super cool though, and when you wanted to you could really focus and then be proper good at mind-blocking. Mind-blocking... that was a lot easier to say than that other word. Oh! What a question, indeed. "That would be a bit difficult to do, honestly." She chuckled lightly. Not at the young boy’s answer though, goodness no. "Truthfully, I haven't heard of anyone who was able to. To always be using occlumency could prevent you from living your daily life. It does require a certain amount of focus, if not all during the earlier stages of learning. I wouldn't recommend trying it, but… you know, if someone would like to go on in their life having their 'shields up' as you put it…" Which was an utterly precious thing to say. Precious Hufflepuffs! "Then there’s nothing really stopping them." Quote: Originally Posted by Cassirin Hmm. Mo kicked his feet against the mat lightly as he considered the current topic of conversation. They were poking around in brains... hopefully just their own brains today. There were things in other people's brains that Mo desperately didn't want to know. At all. "Professor, if the Imperius is considered illegal because it imposes on someone's will, why isn't Legilimancy considered illegal? You just said that there's no redeeming value to it - the only use for Legilimancy is personal gain, plus it has so much potential for harm." "Honestly, I'm not sure. I don't make the laws, Mister Branxton." The professor shrugged up her shoulders. Eep! "As I was saying to Mister Stark before, my guess would be it depended on the governments and their take on it. You would have to ask them about it. If you want, you can write our British government a letter, see if you get a reply back. Would have no problem sending one off." After the students had their say on the topic, Medea quickly took another check on the time. Oh, they should probably get started soon. "Concentration, intent, and thanks to Miss Dixon, we're going to add the word perseverance into the mix. These are generally the three things you will be focusing on during our activity today." "But before I go into more detail about, does anyone have any questions?"