SnitchSeeker.com - View Single Post - HoM Lesson 2 - Albus Dumbledore

Lissy Longbottom · 02-25-2021, 06:06 PM

SPOILER!!: Replies!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BanaBatGirl

Why? WHY did Albus hide the truth from Harry? Heck if Bernie knew... what... she shook her head at this question, still stuck in her feelings, but gaining insight from feeling.... all the feelings.... always... with the feels...

"He was doing it for the greater good," she intoned solemnly, suddenly struck by an idea. "As in, Dumbledore was just doing what he believed was right, and what could save as many people as possible while also considering how he felt for Harry. He probably realized that some people would be lost and some would be saved along the way. I bet--- I bet emotion clouded his judgment some."

Did that make any sense? Bernie looked down at her hands, suddenly struck by another sad thought but not one she wanted to share. She was done talking.

"That certainly could have been a contributing factor. It's awful that sometimes we have to even think about how many people we can save over one - but it's definitely something he could have been thinking about," Gabi nodded in response to Bernie's answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassirin

Phoebe was actually surprised that they were going to focus on the Harry Potter aspect of Dumbledore's history. Of all the things - his relationships with Muggles, his sister's tragic story, how much the Neo-Alliance probably hated him - it was surprising that they were going to focus on the most famous wizard in recent history.

Phoebe raised her hand, not exactly sure what the right answer was on this topic. Sometimes, it was hard to know what exactly was dangerous. "Um, I think Dumbledore knew that it was too much for Harry Potter to handle as a kid. If he told him out of the gate that he had to die to save the world, then I think Potter would have freaked out. But he cultivated this hero mentality in him, so when he did find out, his natural inclination at that point was a willingness to die."

"That IS a lot of information to drop on a teenager," Gabi nodded in agreement. "Good work, Miss James."

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiallNIP

Quinn thought for a moment—why would Dumbledore not tell Harry? Phoebe and Bernies's answers seemed as good as any, but Quinn couldn't just steal them."I think it might be a bit of both—Harry knowing he had to die could've beet detrimental, but Dumbledore mightn't've had the heart to tell Harry either way. I don't think there's any real way to know for sure without asking him." So, he could sort of steal their answers.

"If his portrait still hangs in the Headmasters office, we could maybe take a field trip someday to ask him," she pointed out with a small smile, trying to cheer up the young Ravenclaw. Obviously not NOW considering who currently occupied that room.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watson

It was nice to hear a chuckle. He hadn’t heard a chuckle in a while. It was really nice to hear that ;_; - especially with how distraught and upset he was feeling after the Courtyard. The seventh year Lion nodded at his Professor’s response, noting what she had said, and offering a warm smile.

The next question gave him pause. Why hadn’t Albus told Harry about the fact that he was Voldemort’s horcrux? The quote which was still ringing through his mind prompted him to think down a similar path. He raised his hand to offer his thought. “Perhaps it had to do with Dumbledore’s belief in prophecies... Maybe he felt as if he told Harry that he was a horcrux then Harry would turn out that way and fulfill that prophecy.... He wanted Harry Potter to make his own choices and grow to be his own man..? People are capable of both truly incredible and terrible things...”

"Prophecies are tricky," Gabi responded with a small smile. "You don't want to influence people to act a certain way, but you also worry that if you DON'T do certain things it won't come true. They're quite a pain, if you ask me."

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilFox06

Valencia listened to the comments when a dark expression fell over her. "Or it's none of the above." she suggested. "It's a common brainwashing tactic." Brainwashing might have been too harsh a word. "You keep a certain bit of knowledge away from a person as you indoctrinate them and by the time you add on the last piece, it's too far down the path and the person is already sold on the theory."

Yes. She had brushed up on psychology. For reasons.

Well that was...a take. Gabi nodded thoughtfully at Valencia's answer. "It is entirely possible he did it with very pointed intentions in mind," she said in agreement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatInTheHat

"The truth scares people just as much as death." Tavie supplied in a detached tone. Her quill took notes for her but she almost made it stop. Dumbledore? Harry Potter? Not the most fascinating part of history. Maybe this class would become interesting later, but right now Nem was still more fascinating. It was so beneficial right now that Tavie could multitask. "Harry had to die, but he didn't have to know until he was committed to the cause. Sometimes you have to set aside feelings for one so society can survive."

A bit surprised that Tavie spoke up, considering she'd been so quiet up until now, Gabi smiled at her as she answered. "That's quite true. As we know, when he found out the truth, Harry did not hesitate to go meet Voldemort in the woods," she pointed out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadAlice

Violet added, "It could have been because he didn't want Voldemort to somehow find out. Voldemort was a powerful Legilimens and he could have seen the knowledge in Harry's mind, and then he might have tried to stop them before they could destroy his Horcruxes."

"Interesting point!" Gabi responded with a grin. "Voldemort obviously didn't know what he had done when he tried to kill Harry as an infant - it would certainly muddy the waters if he knew what Harry truly was," she elaborated with a small head nod.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArianaBlack

Kinsay didn't want to think critically anymore. Her brain was already too tired. Everything was just so much. Even Fifi's reassuring shoulder squeeze wasn't enough to put a smile on her face. That's when you know. 'Cause usually, Fifi's anything put a smile on Kizzy's face.

If it were any other time, Kinsay would've opted out of the question all together. She would've saved the energy of raising her hand or having to think or needing to sound smart in front of everyone. But the fear of getting into trouble was enough to motivate her. And she raised her hand, not because she wanted to answer the question, but because she was scared of what might happen if she chose not to.

Her answer though? It was a lazy one. And she knew it.

"Maybe he was tired and just forgot." An impending war and total doom made people tired. Kinsay would know. They were living through it right now. It made Kinsay forget lots of things sometimes. Like what it was like to be happy. She forgot that most of all.

Gabi was a tad disappointed in Kinsay's answer. She usually had so much more to contribute - but again, they were in desperate times, so she didn't hold it against her. "Dumbledore did have a LOT on his plate. It's possible," she reassured her with a small smile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Moose

Even reading as much about all this Magical History stuff as best he could Moose was still constantly surprised by half the stuff he would hear during every class. Usually he would become mad over such revelations. Not now though.

Where does he even begin?

"Maybe you don't put a young kid like that through such trauma so early on." If this Harry Potter had found out his life was only meant to be used to kill some other guy and he was being used. Moose certainly wouldn't want to know how worthless his life meant...oh wait.

"That could certainly have played a large part in it," Gabi responded to Moose's answer with a nod of agreement. "Especially considering everything else Harry had to deal with," she added. Facing death every year at Hogwarts was more than enough to scar a young child - they knew that first hand, yes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FearlessLeader19

The board now indeed held a number of facts about Dumbledore, some of which this Slytherin had forgotten or hadn’t known. She proceeded to take the points in her book. That particular Dumbledore had been something. Colour Claudine impressed. Anyway. Reccard had chosen an interesting piece of the man’s life to focus on today.

The question asked was even more interesting than the lesson. Perhaps. Was her hand up? Yes. “It’s possible Dumbledore just wanted Harry to build character. Or build a stronger character by using the information. That way Harry was able to discover that he had it in him to figure things out rather than solely being fed with the full truth.’’

"There is a LOT of growing that occurs during teenage years - adding that fact to Harry's mind would have certainly complicated matters. Well done, Miss Blaze," Gabi replied to her answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolyander

Dahlia shifted in her chair, flexing her fingers around her quill. Notes, so many notes. She was doing her best to keep up and copy down the entire list that Recard had on the board. Everything that was being said she was actually writing down. It was much easier to focus solely on taking notes than it was to think about anything else that was happening. Maybe if she focused only on her lessons... everything else... would disappear. Doubtful but it might be worth a try.

Dumbledore. Harry Potter. The prophecy. It was a lot. This was stuff she didn't feel like thinking about right now. Like most of the time lately, she didn't feel much like answering but she knew better. So slowly a small hand raised into the air. "I don't really know. There's many reasons I'm sure but I guess... well... telling an eleven year old that had no idea about magic or anything at all that he's a Horcrux and meant to die in order to save everyone else and fulfill a some prophecy... how do you really tell anyone that?" It wasn't right. It wasn't fair. Just like none of this was right or fair.

"That is also a good point. It's certainly not a matter to be taken lightly and needed to be approached with tact," Gabi smiled softly at Dahlia as she answered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrocat

"The greater good I guess. Maybe he wouldn't have won if Harry knew he could die." She didn't know. Or care. She just wanted to sit on the LEFT side of the room. And she didn't care much for Dumbledore. "If he told him, a lot of people would be mad." Ash stared at the ceiling.

"He might not have cared enough." Wizards were overrated.

And she had THOUGHTS on powerful wizards. Didn't like Grindelwald. Hated Rosier. Didn't like Voldemort. Hated Dumbledore slightly less but still a good amount. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

"Telling Harry about his fate may have definitely changed the way things played out," she replied to Ashley's answer - even though she was PRETTY sure Dumbledore cared a BIT about Harry. Although who really knew?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising

Classes felt so very strange as he saw half the gryffindors whom he would have normally been able to see in the common room only in lessons now. He didn't even see them during mealtimes and while Bella assured him he needed his fuel, that seemed wrong somehow. Everything about Hogwarts just seemed and felt wrong, which was why with the first question about Albus Dumbledore seemed a bit off for them to focus on. It seemed like Professor Recard was trying to tell them things without actually telling them things. History, Apollo knew, if nothing else seemed to repeat itself. Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. He was also pretty sure that every child who had some contact with the magical world knew the name Albus Dumbledore, which by-product, Harry Potter. It also made him wonder, was there a Harry Potter of this generation? Was there horcruxes involved?

Dumbledore liked and appreciated muggles and muggle related things, was something Apollo knew. But also something that probably wasn't an answer the alliance would approve of. So Apollo just stayed quiet through the first question, jotting down notes of things that his classmates mentioned. They're focusing on his relationship with Harry Potter??? Apollo sat up straighter, eyes widening and wondering .... was the Dumbledore of their generation Recard?? She would make sense, since well, as the Slytherin Head of House, she was probably able to work for both sides easily.

Moving on though, why did Dumbledore never tell Harry he knew he was the final horcrux.

The truth hurt. That was obvious, which was something that the older Ravenclaw (Octavia) had basically mentioned already. Also, as others said - Apollo wasn't really sure who - it was something that Harry needed to work out for himself.

"If you know ahead of time what your choice needs to be, the events that lead up to that would have changed. So when Harry was questioning his sorting into Gryffindor, Dumbledore had said something remarkable, which was that it was our choices that show who we truly are, more than our abilities. We know from history that Hermione was a far more abled witch than Harry. So had Dumbledore informed Harry of everything he knew, Harry wouldn't have been able to make these choices but they would have been made for him. Instead, Harry was able to make these own choices by himself, even if most of his fights he won on sheer dumb luck more than talent." Oops. Perhaps he shouldn't have said that.

Gabi chuckled a little at Apollo's last statement. They could write BOOKS analyzing Harry's fights and how he approached this entire Hogwarts career. "Very true that telling him something that monumental would have changed events - whether Harry wanted to or not, that knowledge would always be in the back of his brain," she elaborated. How could it NOT be?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pundantic

Kale had been quiet. Sorta vague. But the room had him thinking more clearly than he had been after DADA. Not in the way that made him inclined to participate in class, mind you; no, more like he was actually using his brain to think through his options. USING COMMON SENSE. All kinds of crazy stuff happening this term if Kale Trent was being practical. Ish.

He did catch the tail end of the comments about Albus Dumbledore and Kale offered, "Or he didn't really care all that much about Harry and was using him as a means to an end. If you don't care about someone beyond what they are doing for you, its easy to not care what you do or don't tell them." The fifth year knew a thing or two about being used as a means to an end. And being disposable. The second one more than anything.

Really. Any day now. It was the worst waiting game in the world.

"That's a rather...cynical way of viewing things BUT you could certainly make a strong case for that," Gabi replied. A few people had mentioned that Dumbledore simply didn't care. Gabi wasn't entirely sure that was true, but then again - who really knew???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felixir

As Recard passed and made her comment, Nem still said nothing, only nodded in acknowledgement. She hadn't actually told them to stop, only to be careful, and Nem was always terribly, terribly careful - depending on perspective - so they continued.

Unaware of any other eyes on them, Nem directed their attention back to the window again, staring at the view without entirely seeing it, largely content to stay in their own head and half-listen to what was happening in the lesson. Half-listening, however, occasionally turned into full-listening, and in the end their thoughts turned right back to the topic in question. Inconvenient, as Recard wasn't even focusing on any of the more interesting points.

Nem did not care about Albus Dumbledore. They did not care about Harry Potter. They had some interest in horcruxes, but nothing that Recard was going to linger on. In fact, she touched upon several points that might have been piqued their interest, once, but forged right on ahead to the Dumbledore-Potter situation. Nem sat silently, turning an idea over in their head for a few moments - a competent, intelligent, manipulative headmaster who had a tendency to work for the greater good, and a student who had plenty of intelligence and ability of their own, who was perfectly capable, who looked up to that adult and respected him and trusted him. Not a bad take, actually.

Whatever. Nem let that thought settle and directed their mind elsewhere yet again. This stuff was... whatever. That Potter idiot should have figured out that horcrux stuff on his own; someone who really was capable would have done so, as opposed to a Gryffindor twit who stumbled his way to what might have been considered 'success'.

As those thoughts faded too, Nem went on staring out the window. Not even disgust had registered this time.

I don't care, they thought dully, though not entirely in the context of the lesson anymore. I don't care. Why don't I care. Why can't I care. I don't care. I don't care.

It was always hard to determine if Nemesis was actually listening or not - but as long as they didn't disrupt things, she trusted that they were at least listening to the bullet points. Hopefully. Hard to read, that one. Without a doubt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMadamMalfoy

Usually Heath would be pleased or relieved to know his answer was correct, but now he felt nothing. What did it matter? It wasn't as if a certain number of correct answers would keep him from getting locked away again. He dutifully copied down the list on the board, only looking up from his parchment when Recard spoke again, and even then he wasn't looking at her. He kept his gaze focused on the board as he listened. Oh, here it comes, he thought. That "one aspect" is bound to be Grindelwald…

But it wasn't. It was Dumbledore's relationship with Harry Potter. Frankly, Heath was more interested in looking at this from Potter's point of view than Dumbledore's, or he was as much as he could be interested in anything anymore. He felt a strange kinship with Harry Potter, as they were both boys forced into a cause by circumstances beyond their control. The more he thought about it, the more Dumbledore didn't seem all that different from Rosier. Although they were at opposite ends of the ideological spectrum, they were both Hogwarts headmasters so devoted to their respective causes that they would do anything to make them happen, even if it meant keeping their students in the dark about what those causes involved. That and they weren't above using children as pawns to get what they wanted.

That line of thinking made the answer to the next question obvious. "I think Dumbledore thought Harry would back out if he knew early on that he was a Horcrux and thus had to die to defeat Voldemort," he said after raising his hand. "He wasn't willing to gamble his cause's success on the fears of a child, so he planned to wait to tell the truth until Harry was too involved in the fight to turn back, even if he wanted to." Anything for the greater good, right?

"It is certainly true that Harry had to make the ultimate sacrifice to destroy Voldemort for good - there was no other way," she agreed. Had he known about it ahead of time, things could have turned out very differently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakemetotheBurrow

"Adults keep stuff from kids all the time," Cecelia offered quietly. "I'd like to think it's because they want to save them from growing up too fast, but sometimes that can't be helped." Life wasn't always going to be sunshine and daisies, as much as she wanted it to be, and she was learning that first hand. Even if her parents wanted to, they couldn't protect her from any of this stuff. Even if Dumbledore kept this secret, it didn't stop Harry from going through horrible stuff anyway.

"That is a good point Miss Summers. Perhaps Dumbledore was just waiting for the right time," she pointed out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlwaysSnapesGirl

"Maybe he did care, at least to some extent," Ivy said, raising her hand. "Maybe he thought there could be another way that he hadn't found yet, so he didn't tell Harry about it, but eventually it was clear that was the only way, and then it was too late." It was hard to say really...

But if she tried to imagine herself in Dumbledore's place, being a powerful wizard leading a movement to stop one of the most evil wizards in history, she hoped her reasoning would be because she cared. Because she had hope that she didn't have to tell someone that they would have to sacrifice themselves in order to save everyone else. Because she could find a way to save that person too.

"That is also a good point. We don't know if he was trying to figure out a way to spare Harry or not," she explained. Likely not true BUT...they didn't know everything that had been going on in his life.

All the students had done a GREAT job of trying to figure out what Albus' intentions had been - and now it was time for a debate. "Great job, everyone! You all had some really good answers," she assured them all. She was doing her best to keep EVERYONE'S spirits up - although that was a near impossible task these days.

"Now, we're going to get up and get moving for a little bit," she told them all with a small smile. "Those of you who think that Albus was WRONG to withhold the information from Harry, please go stand on the LEFT side of the room. All of you who think Albus was RIGHT to keep that information from Harry...head to the RIGHT," she explained. In case anyone was wondering, there was no correlation between the "wrong" side being where the muggleborns were sitting. It was just easier to remember that the "right" side was...well, the right.

"AS you get up and head over, one by one, please explain your reasoning for selecting your side," she explained. "We'll start with this row here...once it's your turn, make your selection and share with the class why you chose the way you did. If someone on the other side makes a good point that you would like to respond to, you're more than welcome to do so! Just raise your hand and wait for a pause in the conversation before addressing them," she added. She was more than happy to see some debate come out of this exercise!

Alright - time to get up and get moving!

OOC: Hey everyone! Forgive me for taking a bit longer to get moving - I have a terrible head cold and crashed last night lol. As Gabi said, select your side of the room based on whether you think Albus was right or wrong to keep the Horcrux secret from Harry, and be sure to have your character EXPLAIN why they picked that side as they move. If you want to respond to someone feel free to quote them and respond!

I'll probably post a check in either tonight before I go to bed (around 10ish hours from now) but you'll have at least 48 hours to do this part of the lesson. Gabi will just be here to facilitate the conversation!

02-25-2021, 06:06 PM	#63 (permalink)
Lissy Longbottom Potterdom Mod Book Club Mod DMAC & DoM Giant Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ferrix: GMT-6 Posts: 56,907 Hogwarts RPG Name: Moritz Schultz (#0f667e) Ravenclaw Seventh Year Hogwarts RPG Name: Nancy Schultz (#ac6f77) Hufflepuff Fourth Year Ministry RPG Name: Jabari Rahal (#c54031) Mysteries Ministry RPG Name: Calloway Bennigan (#b8b323) Accidents & Catastrophes x11 x1	curly haired prefect - "sometimes I get angry!" - 30/90 - chicken emoji - probably @ Disney - I speak dog SPOILER!!: Replies! Quote: Originally Posted by BanaBatGirl Why? WHY did Albus hide the truth from Harry? Heck if Bernie knew... what... she shook her head at this question, still stuck in her feelings, but gaining insight from feeling.... all the feelings.... always... with the feels... "He was doing it for the greater good," she intoned solemnly, suddenly struck by an idea. "As in, Dumbledore was just doing what he believed was right, and what could save as many people as possible while also considering how he felt for Harry. He probably realized that some people would be lost and some would be saved along the way. I bet--- I bet emotion clouded his judgment some." Did that make any sense? Bernie looked down at her hands, suddenly struck by another sad thought but not one she wanted to share. She was done talking. "That certainly could have been a contributing factor. It's awful that sometimes we have to even think about how many people we can save over one - but it's definitely something he could have been thinking about," Gabi nodded in response to Bernie's answer. Quote: Originally Posted by Cassirin Phoebe was actually surprised that they were going to focus on the Harry Potter aspect of Dumbledore's history. Of all the things - his relationships with Muggles, his sister's tragic story, how much the Neo-Alliance probably hated him - it was surprising that they were going to focus on the most famous wizard in recent history. Phoebe raised her hand, not exactly sure what the right answer was on this topic. Sometimes, it was hard to know what exactly was dangerous. "Um, I think Dumbledore knew that it was too much for Harry Potter to handle as a kid. If he told him out of the gate that he had to die to save the world, then I think Potter would have freaked out. But he cultivated this hero mentality in him, so when he did find out, his natural inclination at that point was a willingness to die." "That IS a lot of information to drop on a teenager," Gabi nodded in agreement. "Good work, Miss James." Quote: Originally Posted by NiallNIP Quinn thought for a moment—why would Dumbledore not tell Harry? Phoebe and Bernies's answers seemed as good as any, but Quinn couldn't just steal them."I think it might be a bit of both—Harry knowing he had to die could've beet detrimental, but Dumbledore mightn't've had the heart to tell Harry either way. I don't think there's any real way to know for sure without asking him." So, he could sort of steal their answers. "If his portrait still hangs in the Headmasters office, we could maybe take a field trip someday to ask him," she pointed out with a small smile, trying to cheer up the young Ravenclaw. Obviously not NOW considering who currently occupied that room. Quote: Originally Posted by Watson It was nice to hear a chuckle. He hadn’t heard a chuckle in a while. It was really nice to hear that ;_; - especially with how distraught and upset he was feeling after the Courtyard. The seventh year Lion nodded at his Professor’s response, noting what she had said, and offering a warm smile. The next question gave him pause. Why hadn’t Albus told Harry about the fact that he was Voldemort’s horcrux? The quote which was still ringing through his mind prompted him to think down a similar path. He raised his hand to offer his thought. “Perhaps it had to do with Dumbledore’s belief in prophecies... Maybe he felt as if he told Harry that he was a horcrux then Harry would turn out that way and fulfill that prophecy.... He wanted Harry Potter to make his own choices and grow to be his own man..? People are capable of both truly incredible and terrible things...” "Prophecies are tricky," Gabi responded with a small smile. "You don't want to influence people to act a certain way, but you also worry that if you DON'T do certain things it won't come true. They're quite a pain, if you ask me." Quote: Originally Posted by LilFox06 Valencia listened to the comments when a dark expression fell over her. "Or it's none of the above." she suggested. "It's a common brainwashing tactic." Brainwashing might have been too harsh a word. "You keep a certain bit of knowledge away from a person as you indoctrinate them and by the time you add on the last piece, it's too far down the path and the person is already sold on the theory." Yes. She had brushed up on psychology. For reasons. Well that was...a take. Gabi nodded thoughtfully at Valencia's answer. "It is entirely possible he did it with very pointed intentions in mind," she said in agreement. Quote: Originally Posted by PatInTheHat "The truth scares people just as much as death." Tavie supplied in a detached tone. Her quill took notes for her but she almost made it stop. Dumbledore? Harry Potter? Not the most fascinating part of history. Maybe this class would become interesting later, but right now Nem was still more fascinating. It was so beneficial right now that Tavie could multitask. "Harry had to die, but he didn't have to know until he was committed to the cause. Sometimes you have to set aside feelings for one so society can survive." A bit surprised that Tavie spoke up, considering she'd been so quiet up until now, Gabi smiled at her as she answered. "That's quite true. As we know, when he found out the truth, Harry did not hesitate to go meet Voldemort in the woods," she pointed out. Quote: Originally Posted by MadAlice Violet added, "It could have been because he didn't want Voldemort to somehow find out. Voldemort was a powerful Legilimens and he could have seen the knowledge in Harry's mind, and then he might have tried to stop them before they could destroy his Horcruxes." "Interesting point!" Gabi responded with a grin. "Voldemort obviously didn't know what he had done when he tried to kill Harry as an infant - it would certainly muddy the waters if he knew what Harry truly was," she elaborated with a small head nod. Quote: Originally Posted by ArianaBlack Kinsay didn't want to think critically anymore. Her brain was already too tired. Everything was just so much. Even Fifi's reassuring shoulder squeeze wasn't enough to put a smile on her face. That's when you know. 'Cause usually, Fifi's anything put a smile on Kizzy's face. If it were any other time, Kinsay would've opted out of the question all together. She would've saved the energy of raising her hand or having to think or needing to sound smart in front of everyone. But the fear of getting into trouble was enough to motivate her. And she raised her hand, not because she wanted to answer the question, but because she was scared of what might happen if she chose not to. Her answer though? It was a lazy one. And she knew it. "Maybe he was tired and just forgot." An impending war and total doom made people tired. Kinsay would know. They were living through it right now. It made Kinsay forget lots of things sometimes. Like what it was like to be happy. She forgot that most of all. Gabi was a tad disappointed in Kinsay's answer. She usually had so much more to contribute - but again, they were in desperate times, so she didn't hold it against her. "Dumbledore did have a LOT on his plate. It's possible," she reassured her with a small smile. Quote: Originally Posted by Uncle Moose Even reading as much about all this Magical History stuff as best he could Moose was still constantly surprised by half the stuff he would hear during every class. Usually he would become mad over such revelations. Not now though. Where does he even begin? "Maybe you don't put a young kid like that through such trauma so early on." If this Harry Potter had found out his life was only meant to be used to kill some other guy and he was being used. Moose certainly wouldn't want to know how worthless his life meant...oh wait. "That could certainly have played a large part in it," Gabi responded to Moose's answer with a nod of agreement. "Especially considering everything else Harry had to deal with," she added. Facing death every year at Hogwarts was more than enough to scar a young child - they knew that first hand, yes? Quote: Originally Posted by FearlessLeader19 The board now indeed held a number of facts about Dumbledore, some of which this Slytherin had forgotten or hadn’t known. She proceeded to take the points in her book. That particular Dumbledore had been something. Colour Claudine impressed. Anyway. Reccard had chosen an interesting piece of the man’s life to focus on today. The question asked was even more interesting than the lesson. Perhaps. Was her hand up? Yes. “It’s possible Dumbledore just wanted Harry to build character. Or build a stronger character by using the information. That way Harry was able to discover that he had it in him to figure things out rather than solely being fed with the full truth.’’ "There is a LOT of growing that occurs during teenage years - adding that fact to Harry's mind would have certainly complicated matters. Well done, Miss Blaze," Gabi replied to her answer. Quote: Originally Posted by Kolyander Dahlia shifted in her chair, flexing her fingers around her quill. Notes, so many notes. She was doing her best to keep up and copy down the entire list that Recard had on the board. Everything that was being said she was actually writing down. It was much easier to focus solely on taking notes than it was to think about anything else that was happening. Maybe if she focused only on her lessons... everything else... would disappear. Doubtful but it might be worth a try. Dumbledore. Harry Potter. The prophecy. It was a lot. This was stuff she didn't feel like thinking about right now. Like most of the time lately, she didn't feel much like answering but she knew better. So slowly a small hand raised into the air. "I don't really know. There's many reasons I'm sure but I guess... well... telling an eleven year old that had no idea about magic or anything at all that he's a Horcrux and meant to die in order to save everyone else and fulfill a some prophecy... how do you really tell anyone that?" It wasn't right. It wasn't fair. Just like none of this was right or fair. "That is also a good point. It's certainly not a matter to be taken lightly and needed to be approached with tact," Gabi smiled softly at Dahlia as she answered. Quote: Originally Posted by astrocat "The greater good I guess. Maybe he wouldn't have won if Harry knew he could die." She didn't know. Or care. She just wanted to sit on the LEFT side of the room. And she didn't care much for Dumbledore. "If he told him, a lot of people would be mad." Ash stared at the ceiling. "He might not have cared enough." Wizards were overrated. And she had THOUGHTS on powerful wizards. Didn't like Grindelwald. Hated Rosier. Didn't like Voldemort. Hated Dumbledore slightly less but still a good amount. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. "Telling Harry about his fate may have definitely changed the way things played out," she replied to Ashley's answer - even though she was PRETTY sure Dumbledore cared a BIT about Harry. Although who really knew? Quote: Originally Posted by PhoenixRising Classes felt so very strange as he saw half the gryffindors whom he would have normally been able to see in the common room only in lessons now. He didn't even see them during mealtimes and while Bella assured him he needed his fuel, that seemed wrong somehow. Everything about Hogwarts just seemed and felt wrong, which was why with the first question about Albus Dumbledore seemed a bit off for them to focus on. It seemed like Professor Recard was trying to tell them things without actually telling them things. History, Apollo knew, if nothing else seemed to repeat itself. Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. He was also pretty sure that every child who had some contact with the magical world knew the name Albus Dumbledore, which by-product, Harry Potter. It also made him wonder, was there a Harry Potter of this generation? Was there horcruxes involved? Dumbledore liked and appreciated muggles and muggle related things, was something Apollo knew. But also something that probably wasn't an answer the alliance would approve of. So Apollo just stayed quiet through the first question, jotting down notes of things that his classmates mentioned. They're focusing on his relationship with Harry Potter??? Apollo sat up straighter, eyes widening and wondering .... was the Dumbledore of their generation Recard?? She would make sense, since well, as the Slytherin Head of House, she was probably able to work for both sides easily. Moving on though, why did Dumbledore never tell Harry he knew he was the final horcrux. The truth hurt. That was obvious, which was something that the older Ravenclaw (Octavia) had basically mentioned already. Also, as others said - Apollo wasn't really sure who - it was something that Harry needed to work out for himself. "If you know ahead of time what your choice needs to be, the events that lead up to that would have changed. So when Harry was questioning his sorting into Gryffindor, Dumbledore had said something remarkable, which was that it was our choices that show who we truly are, more than our abilities. We know from history that Hermione was a far more abled witch than Harry. So had Dumbledore informed Harry of everything he knew, Harry wouldn't have been able to make these choices but they would have been made for him. Instead, Harry was able to make these own choices by himself, even if most of his fights he won on sheer dumb luck more than talent." Oops. Perhaps he shouldn't have said that. Gabi chuckled a little at Apollo's last statement. They could write BOOKS analyzing Harry's fights and how he approached this entire Hogwarts career. "Very true that telling him something that monumental would have changed events - whether Harry wanted to or not, that knowledge would always be in the back of his brain," she elaborated. How could it NOT be? Quote: Originally Posted by pundantic Kale had been quiet. Sorta vague. But the room had him thinking more clearly than he had been after DADA. Not in the way that made him inclined to participate in class, mind you; no, more like he was actually using his brain to think through his options. USING COMMON SENSE. All kinds of crazy stuff happening this term if Kale Trent was being practical. Ish. He did catch the tail end of the comments about Albus Dumbledore and Kale offered, "Or he didn't really care all that much about Harry and was using him as a means to an end. If you don't care about someone beyond what they are doing for you, its easy to not care what you do or don't tell them." The fifth year knew a thing or two about being used as a means to an end. And being disposable. The second one more than anything. Really. Any day now. It was the worst waiting game in the world. "That's a rather...cynical way of viewing things BUT you could certainly make a strong case for that," Gabi replied. A few people had mentioned that Dumbledore simply didn't care. Gabi wasn't entirely sure that was true, but then again - who really knew??? Quote: Originally Posted by Felixir As Recard passed and made her comment, Nem still said nothing, only nodded in acknowledgement. She hadn't actually told them to stop, only to be careful, and Nem was always terribly, terribly careful - depending on perspective - so they continued. Unaware of any other eyes on them, Nem directed their attention back to the window again, staring at the view without entirely seeing it, largely content to stay in their own head and half-listen to what was happening in the lesson. Half-listening, however, occasionally turned into full-listening, and in the end their thoughts turned right back to the topic in question. Inconvenient, as Recard wasn't even focusing on any of the more interesting points. Nem did not care about Albus Dumbledore. They did not care about Harry Potter. They had some interest in horcruxes, but nothing that Recard was going to linger on. In fact, she touched upon several points that might have been piqued their interest, once, but forged right on ahead to the Dumbledore-Potter situation. Nem sat silently, turning an idea over in their head for a few moments - a competent, intelligent, manipulative headmaster who had a tendency to work for the greater good, and a student who had plenty of intelligence and ability of their own, who was perfectly capable, who looked up to that adult and respected him and trusted him. Not a bad take, actually. Whatever. Nem let that thought settle and directed their mind elsewhere yet again. This stuff was... whatever. That Potter idiot should have figured out that horcrux stuff on his own; someone who really was capable would have done so, as opposed to a Gryffindor twit who stumbled his way to what might have been considered 'success'. As those thoughts faded too, Nem went on staring out the window. Not even disgust had registered this time. I don't care, they thought dully, though not entirely in the context of the lesson anymore. I don't care. Why don't I care. Why can't I care. I don't care. I don't care. It was always hard to determine if Nemesis was actually listening or not - but as long as they didn't disrupt things, she trusted that they were at least listening to the bullet points. Hopefully. Hard to read, that one. Without a doubt. Quote: Originally Posted by MadMadamMalfoy Usually Heath would be pleased or relieved to know his answer was correct, but now he felt nothing. What did it matter? It wasn't as if a certain number of correct answers would keep him from getting locked away again. He dutifully copied down the list on the board, only looking up from his parchment when Recard spoke again, and even then he wasn't looking at her. He kept his gaze focused on the board as he listened. Oh, here it comes, he thought. That "one aspect" is bound to be Grindelwald… But it wasn't. It was Dumbledore's relationship with Harry Potter. Frankly, Heath was more interested in looking at this from Potter's point of view than Dumbledore's, or he was as much as he could be interested in anything anymore. He felt a strange kinship with Harry Potter, as they were both boys forced into a cause by circumstances beyond their control. The more he thought about it, the more Dumbledore didn't seem all that different from Rosier. Although they were at opposite ends of the ideological spectrum, they were both Hogwarts headmasters so devoted to their respective causes that they would do anything to make them happen, even if it meant keeping their students in the dark about what those causes involved. That and they weren't above using children as pawns to get what they wanted. That line of thinking made the answer to the next question obvious. "I think Dumbledore thought Harry would back out if he knew early on that he was a Horcrux and thus had to die to defeat Voldemort," he said after raising his hand. "He wasn't willing to gamble his cause's success on the fears of a child, so he planned to wait to tell the truth until Harry was too involved in the fight to turn back, even if he wanted to." Anything for the greater good, right? "It is certainly true that Harry had to make the ultimate sacrifice to destroy Voldemort for good - there was no other way," she agreed. Had he known about it ahead of time, things could have turned out very differently. Quote: Originally Posted by TakemetotheBurrow "Adults keep stuff from kids all the time," Cecelia offered quietly. "I'd like to think it's because they want to save them from growing up too fast, but sometimes that can't be helped." Life wasn't always going to be sunshine and daisies, as much as she wanted it to be, and she was learning that first hand. Even if her parents wanted to, they couldn't protect her from any of this stuff. Even if Dumbledore kept this secret, it didn't stop Harry from going through horrible stuff anyway. "That is a good point Miss Summers. Perhaps Dumbledore was just waiting for the right time," she pointed out. Quote: Originally Posted by AlwaysSnapesGirl "Maybe he did care, at least to some extent," Ivy said, raising her hand. "Maybe he thought there could be another way that he hadn't found yet, so he didn't tell Harry about it, but eventually it was clear that was the only way, and then it was too late." It was hard to say really... But if she tried to imagine herself in Dumbledore's place, being a powerful wizard leading a movement to stop one of the most evil wizards in history, she hoped her reasoning would be because she cared. Because she had hope that she didn't have to tell someone that they would have to sacrifice themselves in order to save everyone else. Because she could find a way to save that person too. "That is also a good point. We don't know if he was trying to figure out a way to spare Harry or not," she explained. Likely not true BUT...they didn't know everything that had been going on in his life. All the students had done a GREAT job of trying to figure out what Albus' intentions had been - and now it was time for a debate. "Great job, everyone! You all had some really good answers," she assured them all. She was doing her best to keep EVERYONE'S spirits up - although that was a near impossible task these days. "Now, we're going to get up and get moving for a little bit," she told them all with a small smile. "Those of you who think that Albus was WRONG to withhold the information from Harry, please go stand on the LEFT side of the room. All of you who think Albus was RIGHT to keep that information from Harry...head to the RIGHT," she explained. In case anyone was wondering, there was no correlation between the "wrong" side being where the muggleborns were sitting. It was just easier to remember that the "right" side was...well, the right. "AS you get up and head over, one by one, please explain your reasoning for selecting your side," she explained. "We'll start with this row here...once it's your turn, make your selection and share with the class why you chose the way you did. If someone on the other side makes a good point that you would like to respond to, you're more than welcome to do so! Just raise your hand and wait for a pause in the conversation before addressing them," she added. She was more than happy to see some debate come out of this exercise! Alright - time to get up and get moving! OOC: Hey everyone! Forgive me for taking a bit longer to get moving - I have a terrible head cold and crashed last night lol. As Gabi said, select your side of the room based on whether you think Albus was right or wrong to keep the Horcrux secret from Harry, and be sure to have your character EXPLAIN why they picked that side as they move. If you want to respond to someone feel free to quote them and respond! I'll probably post a check in either tonight before I go to bed (around 10ish hours from now) but you'll have at least 48 hours to do this part of the lesson. Gabi will just be here to facilitate the conversation! __________________ I'm still standin'________________________________________ better than I ever did Lookin' like a true survivor_________________________________feelin' like a little kid