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Go Back   SnitchSeeker.com > Forums > Diagon Alley (Potterdom) > Magical Menagerie (Fantastic Beasts)

Magical Menagerie (Fantastic Beasts) What in Merlin's beard is our pal Newt Scamander up to now? All things fantastic and beastly can be speculated here.
THIS FORUM WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS. ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK.

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Old 11-20-2016, 06:17 PM
Steelsheen Steelsheen is offline
 
Question What do you think about Graves and Grindelwald?

So theres that twist in the end








I knew that Depp was Grindy -- that was confirmed a few days before the movie came out. What I didnt expect was how it was revealed.

Does this mean that all the time we were watching Graves it was actually Grindelwald? Or did Grindelwald sneak in after we met Graves the first time?
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Old 11-22-2016, 05:09 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I wondered this too and I just got back from seeing it again. I think there was mention of Graves having been in Europe (fairly recentish but don't quote me on that) when he was insisting that the trouble was beast-related? I'd have to see it again to snag a quote though. In saying that I think its most likely that he was captured/killed sometime while overseas (perhaps he will show up in 1928 Paris?? I know we have been told that he's not expected to reappear but who knows with these things) and that Grindelwald was disguising as him the entire time we see him in the film.

This also makes me wonder how LONG he'd possibly been Grindy, given he certainly seemed to know Tina well enough (at least that would mean the timeframe he was grindy-as-graves is reflective of the growing presence of the second salemers and Tina's interference there). Did we get a timeframe of how long the obscurus was a problem for them? Because if he was tracking it/specifically looking for one, then that would help us pinpoint a timeline too.

I also wonder, given how he'd built enough of a relationship with credence to get the boy to trust him if that can indicate some length of time for us too. I'm thinking at LEAST a few months though.

Anyway, definitely he was never ACTUALLY Graves when we saw him, all of that was off screen, its just a matter of how long, if we can try and build ourselves a timeline
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Old 11-22-2016, 05:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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That twist was definitely something ... but the similar hairstyles of the two totally made me see it coming. I did, for a split second, second guess my hunch and just thought Graves was a Grindelwald fanatic, but the relationship with Credence brought me back to my original hunch for some reason.

Looking at the screenplay, the first scene has the headline "EXT. SOMEWHERE IN EUROPE - 1926 - NIGHT" and then the scene plays out until the newspaper headlines montage: "GRINDELWALD STRIKES AGAIN IN EUROPE," "HOGWARTS SCHOOL INCREASES SECURITY," "ANTI-WIZARD FEELING ON THE RISE," "WHERE IS GRINDELWALD?," and "IS ANYONE SAFE?" Looking at a still of Grindelwald with his back to us, the season definitely is not winter. There's leaves on the trees, so I think it's safe to assume this scene is set in spring/summer.

Given that Hogwarts is mentioned (could be at the end of or the beginning of a term) in the headline and the storyline with Newt in New York takes place in December 1926, I think we can be sure that Grindelwald snuck off to America and impersonated Graves well before Newt arrived in the States. How long he was actually in America, we can't say for sure, but it would make sense that he was there for a few months at the very least.

I'm trying to recall when/how long Crouch Jr. impersonated Moody. I know the HP Wiki says that Moody was convinced to come out of retirement by Dumbledore in 1994 (probably sometime that summer as Lupin resigned mid-June, I think), though Pettigrew and Crouch Jr. overpowered and imprisoned Moody in his own magical trunk before the school year began. He was kept alive so Crouch Jr. could take Moody's hair and question him for his behaviour, patterns, etc. Grindelwald could have done the same thing in a short amount of time; he was, after all, one of those intelligent evil wizards and quick on his feet.

Though there is one thing we can be certain of, as Tegz said: we never did see the real Graves in the film -- it was Grindelwald the whole time.

More HP Wiki information:

Text Cut: Grindelwald
The extent of Grindelwald's success in his revolutionary endeavours is unclear, but his activities gathered international attention and were reported in American wizarding newspapers. In 1926, MACUSA president Seraphina Picquery grew concerned about a threat to the Statute of Secrecy and believed that Grindelwald might be responsible, something which she would have considered an "act of war", showing how seriously Grindelwald's reputation was percieved in America.

Unbeknownst to Picquery, Grindelwald had already infiltrated MACUSA by assuming the identity of her right-hand man Percival Graves. Grindelwald believed the mysterious attacks occurring in New York City to be the work of a powerful Obscurial, which he felt would be a great asset for his plans of world domination. Using his disguise as Graves, Grindelwald came into regular contact with Credence Barebone, whom he believed to be connected to the Obscurial due to a vision he received. Believing Credence was an orphaned Squib, Grindelwald manipulated him into helping him find the Obscurial with the promise of protecting him from his abusive adoptive mother and teaching him magic. During this time, Grindelwald (as Graves) arrested Newton Scamander, whose escaped beasts were believed by MACUSA to be the cause of the Obscurial's attacks. During his interrogation, Grindelwald discovered the Obscurus within Newt's suitcase, and in an effort to hide his tracks, had him and Porpentina Goldstein sentenced to death. Afterwards, he approached Credence after Mary Lou Barebone was killed by the Obscurial and had him track down his adoptive sister Modesty Barebone, believing her to be the source of the Obscurial. Once they found Modesty, Grindelwald cruelly rejected Credence, as he had no further use of him. This angered Credence, who then revealed that he was the Obscurial, much to Grindelwald's surprise. Grindelwald attempted to convince Credence that he had nothing to fear any more and to join his ranks, but this further angered Credence who began rampaging through the city. After the Obscurial's death at the hands of the Aurors, Grindelwald was apprehended by Newt, who then revealed his real identity. Despite his rather easy arrest, Grindelwald was able to escape his captors and fled the United States, eventually ending up in France.


What I want to know is where the real Graves is and if he is even still alive.
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Old 11-22-2016, 08:24 AM   #4 (permalink)
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According to this he isn't... at least not in the NEXT film, who knows after that




Edit: Also a question just occurred to me: Where is the Elder Wand?
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Old 11-25-2016, 02:35 PM   #5 (permalink)


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yeah i watched the vid with David Heyman. Colin's gone awww shucks

why do i feel weird about this? its like.... he gave a performance thats based on Johnny Depp's character? i mean like whut?

i was kinda hoping we'd get to see Graves as he should be, as the version Colin Farrel wants him to be.

do you think Depp's performance of Grindelwald will be/ should be influenced how Colin Farrel portrayed Grindelgraves?


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Originally Posted by Tegz View Post
Edit: Also a question just occurred to me: Where is the Elder Wand?
theres a video interview of JKR where our team asked her that question-- and she refused to answer

i kinda assumed that its with Grindy now. unless its not ..... maybne thats what FB2 will cover too?
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Old 12-02-2016, 01:03 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Steelsheen View Post
yeah i watched the vid with David Heyman. Colin's gone awww shucks

why do i feel weird about this? its like.... he gave a performance thats based on Johnny Depp's character? i mean like whut?

i was kinda hoping we'd get to see Graves as he should be, as the version Colin Farrel wants him to be.

do you think Depp's performance of Grindelwald will be/ should be influenced how Colin Farrel portrayed Grindelgraves?




theres a video interview of JKR where our team asked her that question-- and she refused to answer

i kinda assumed that its with Grindy now. unless its not ..... maybne thats what FB2 will cover too?
I'm certainly interested to see more of Grindy so we can judge how much of Colin's performance was Grindelwald inspired, and how much was guess work lol. But my feel is that Grindy is somewhat psychopathic in that he as Graves did a pretty bang up job of saying what Credence wanted to hear solely for his own means (and I'd assume, as Grindy, with Dumbledore there'd be a lot of that too, given we basically know Dumbledore looooved him and stuff) we know that Credence wanted love and acceptance, and he was given that right up until Grindy-as-Graves dismissed him callously when he thought he wouldn't be any use to him anymore. I would hazard that Grindy-in-any-form is very good at acting whatever part he needs to play (also nobody suspected Graves being off did they?) so that kind of frees up any future performances I think.


AND as for the elderwand, Graves obviously didn't have it, and we know Grindy stole it when he was younger than he is in the beasts series, so I'm very interested to know where it is! Especially if JKR wouldn't say!
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