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Magical Menagerie (Fantastic Beasts) What in Merlin's beard is our pal Newt Scamander up to now? All things fantastic and beastly can be speculated here.
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Old 11-20-2016, 07:31 PM
Steelsheen Steelsheen is offline
 
Arrow What about poor obscure Credence Barebone?

So lets talk about poor Credence and that fantastic beast









I felt so sorry for Credence, everybody uses (and abuses) him . like yeah sure he's really weird, but maybe he became that way because of his abusive mother. can you imagine what he could've been like if he didnt grow up with her?

And wow that twist in the end though! the Obscurus is breathtakingly terrifying, its like a Wizard/ Witch's magic taking physical form and people being able to see / feel it physically. it makes me wonder why Grindelwald is so keen about finding an Obscurial-- does he want to use it as a weapon? or is the obsession connected to Ariana Dumbledore, who was an Obscurial herself?
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Old 11-22-2016, 05:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Wow you just blew my mind I didn't make the Ariana-Obscurial connection, but now that you mention it, it makes perfect sense.

I think the moment where he says that the Sudanese girl's captured obscurus is 'useless' is very telling, that's what tells us very clearly that he has plans for trying to harness that power somehow. I absolutely think he wanted to weaponize it, and likely before THAT moment probably had some ideas about trying to kill the obscurial in order to take the obscurus power somehow. It must have been particularly interesting to him to see it contained in the bubble that Newt had, though it being contained also rendered it relatively harmless in that it would not survive outside of that bubble....

... and yet Newt was VERY cautious about Jacob approaching it, fearful even which suggests that even contained, it could still do some damage if interfered with, maybe it would go out with a bang so to speak?

We've heard rumours that Grindy will somehow revive Credence haven't we? I'm sure I saw something somewhere! If this is so, then it will make the Ariana connection even more interesting...
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Old 11-22-2016, 06:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I was just going to make a thread about the Obscurials and the Obscurus topic. Good thing I checked this thread!

The following is what we learned from the film and has been posted on the HP Wiki:

Text Cut: Obscurial
An Obscurial was a young wizard or witch who developed a dark, parasitical magical force, known as an Obscurus, as a result of their magic being suppressed through psychological or physical means due to their fear of being persecuted by Muggles.

When an Obscurial reaches their emotional and mental breaking point, they may lose control releasing their Obscurus as an invisible, or nearly invisible, destructive wind, or they may even physically transform into an Obscurus. When an Obscurial release the Obscurus within them, their eyes become pure white.

Usually, children possessed by an Obscurus die before their 10th birthday, but as exemplified by Credence Barebone, a wizard with tremendous latent powers can survive longer. When the child dies, the Obscurus vanishes along with them, though Newton Scamander successfully kept one alive when its host died by encasing it in a magical field.
Text Cut: Obscurus
When an Obscurial loses control, the Obscurus force is released often focusing on the cause of the Obscurial's torment, but also causing destruction in its wake. The Obscurus can be largely invisible or appear as a flying, incorporeal, and amorphous entity with the appearance of a black fluid-like cloud or a violent torrent of darkness with a reddish core. It has even been described as "black wind" by some onlookers. The size and the might of an Obscurus depends of the innate power of its host; the more powerful an Obscurial, the more powerful their Obscurus. When an Obscurial reaches their emotional and mental breaking point, they may lose control completely and physically transform into an Obscurus.

Before this time, the Obscurus is invisible, but can at least partially manifest itself visually, especially at times where their host is in great distress. In this state, they are enormously destructive to their surroundings, to the point of causing objects to levitate or break without physically being in contact with them. However, they may be calmed down by someone they trust, causing them to revert to their corporeal state, though being emotionally conflicted can cause the Obscurial to transform back and forth between their normal and Obscurus form. It will normally target people that are the source of their hosts distress, as Credence Barebone's Obscurus went after Henry Shaw after he was insulted by him, though it took longer to attack Mary Lou Barebone since Credence was so close to her. It was when his adoptive sister, Modesty, ran in fear of him and Percival Graves, who was really Gellert Grindelwald, stated that he had lied to Credence about taking him in as a fellow wizard did Credence lose control fully and transform into his Obscurus form.

When an Obscurus kills someone, it leaves specific marks on the victim's body, largely focused on their face.

When the host Obscurial dies, the Obscurus typically vanishes along with them, though Newton Scamander successfully kept one alive when its host died by encasing it in a magical field.


My questions:
  • What are your thoughts on this new concept?
  • Why does Newt have an Obscurus in his suitcase to study?
  • Were you surprised when Credence was revealed as the Obscurial?
  • Do you think Ariana Dumbledore was a possible Obscurial? (It's still unconfirmed, but the description of her fits!)
  • Did you notice that the word Obscurus is not 100% new to us? The publisher of Newt's book was Obscurus Books. Thoughts?
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Why does Newt have an Obscurus in his suitcase to study?
I think for Newt, coming across that Sudanese girl really effected him quite profoundly. He does seem the sort who has a lot of sympathy for innocents. I think he was legitimately wanting to study it in the hope that he'd find a way to fight/destroy/beat one if he came across it again.

Were you surprised when Credence was revealed as the Obscurial?
Not even a little bit, honestly. They kept going on and on about under ten years old, and I guess I watch too many movies because I straight away assumed it was him lol.

Did you notice that the word Obscurus is not 100% new to us? The publisher of Newt's book was Obscurus Books. Thoughts?
It sounds to me like it being a really old term (so old that perhaps its not so commonly known 'now' in the wizarding world since children are rarely having to suppress their magic in such a way (and side note, that might be part of why Hogwarts is so insistent on finding magical children). I do think it miight make sense as something where Newt may have chosen the publisher FOR that name given how much contact he apparently had with obscurials!
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Old 11-24-2016, 05:21 PM   #5 (permalink)


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I haven't got that much to add atm (lazy brain), but "Do you think Ariana Dumbledore was a possible Obscurial?"

Yaaas. I immediately thought of her when they explained what an Obscurial was!
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Old 11-24-2016, 08:40 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I hadn't made the connection to Ariana either until I just saw it written here :O
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Old 11-25-2016, 01:26 PM   #7 (permalink)


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegz View Post
Wow you just blew my mind I didn't make the Ariana-Obscurial connection, but now that you mention it, it makes perfect sense.

I think the moment where he says that the Sudanese girl's captured obscurus is 'useless' is very telling, that's what tells us very clearly that he has plans for trying to harness that power somehow. I absolutely think he wanted to weaponize it, and likely before THAT moment probably had some ideas about trying to kill the obscurial in order to take the obscurus power somehow. It must have been particularly interesting to him to see it contained in the bubble that Newt had, though it being contained also rendered it relatively harmless in that it would not survive outside of that bubble....

... and yet Newt was VERY cautious about Jacob approaching it, fearful even which suggests that even contained, it could still do some damage if interfered with, maybe it would go out with a bang so to speak?

We've heard rumours that Grindy will somehow revive Credence haven't we? I'm sure I saw something somewhere! If this is so, then it will make the Ariana connection even more interesting...
see thats what got me wondering-- ok an Obscurus is very powerful, but it also has a limited shelf life. before meeting Newt and the bubbled Obscurus, what plans did Grindy have to contain Obscuruses (Obscurusi? xD)? like what, is he gonna stockpile little kids in a tent somewhere and wheel them out when he wants to? or has he found a way to absorb an Obscurus and boost his own power, and thereby being able to use it whenever wherever?

i think Newt was really cautious with Jacob approaching it because Newt knows the effects of what Obscurials can do, even just a passing tap could be horrible. orrrr like i said above, a host-less Obscurus might look for a host to take over.

well now theres news that theres a deleted scene with Credence actually getting on a boat and leaving the US, so theres that. i could only assume that that little bit of Obscurus left in him is still there.



and here's another question-- would a cut down Obscurus (like in the case of Credence) stay small, or will it grow to its former strength again?





Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoe View Post
I was just going to make a thread about the Obscurials and the Obscurus topic. Good thing I checked this thread!

The following is what we learned from the film and has been posted on the HP Wiki:

Text Cut: Obscurial
An Obscurial was a young wizard or witch who developed a dark, parasitical magical force, known as an Obscurus, as a result of their magic being suppressed through psychological or physical means due to their fear of being persecuted by Muggles.

When an Obscurial reaches their emotional and mental breaking point, they may lose control releasing their Obscurus as an invisible, or nearly invisible, destructive wind, or they may even physically transform into an Obscurus. When an Obscurial release the Obscurus within them, their eyes become pure white.

Usually, children possessed by an Obscurus die before their 10th birthday, but as exemplified by Credence Barebone, a wizard with tremendous latent powers can survive longer. When the child dies, the Obscurus vanishes along with them, though Newton Scamander successfully kept one alive when its host died by encasing it in a magical field.
Text Cut: Obscurus
When an Obscurial loses control, the Obscurus force is released often focusing on the cause of the Obscurial's torment, but also causing destruction in its wake. The Obscurus can be largely invisible or appear as a flying, incorporeal, and amorphous entity with the appearance of a black fluid-like cloud or a violent torrent of darkness with a reddish core. It has even been described as "black wind" by some onlookers. The size and the might of an Obscurus depends of the innate power of its host; the more powerful an Obscurial, the more powerful their Obscurus. When an Obscurial reaches their emotional and mental breaking point, they may lose control completely and physically transform into an Obscurus.

Before this time, the Obscurus is invisible, but can at least partially manifest itself visually, especially at times where their host is in great distress. In this state, they are enormously destructive to their surroundings, to the point of causing objects to levitate or break without physically being in contact with them. However, they may be calmed down by someone they trust, causing them to revert to their corporeal state, though being emotionally conflicted can cause the Obscurial to transform back and forth between their normal and Obscurus form. It will normally target people that are the source of their hosts distress, as Credence Barebone's Obscurus went after Henry Shaw after he was insulted by him, though it took longer to attack Mary Lou Barebone since Credence was so close to her. It was when his adoptive sister, Modesty, ran in fear of him and Percival Graves, who was really Gellert Grindelwald, stated that he had lied to Credence about taking him in as a fellow wizard did Credence lose control fully and transform into his Obscurus form.

When an Obscurus kills someone, it leaves specific marks on the victim's body, largely focused on their face.

When the host Obscurial dies, the Obscurus typically vanishes along with them, though Newton Scamander successfully kept one alive when its host died by encasing it in a magical field.


My questions:
  • What are your thoughts on this new concept?
  • Why does Newt have an Obscurus in his suitcase to study?
  • Were you surprised when Credence was revealed as the Obscurial?
  • Do you think Ariana Dumbledore was a possible Obscurial? (It's still unconfirmed, but the description of her fits!)
  • Did you notice that the word Obscurus is not 100% new to us? The publisher of Newt's book was Obscurus Books. Thoughts?
i am SO PUMPED about the Obscurus like WOW! the book description from Ariana was practically word for word what we saw onscreen, so thats super awesome for me.

Newt is a Magizoologist but really Newt studies anything that moves really-- much like RL Zoologists. there are some organisms that we have in this world that can be classified as both Kingdom Animalia and Kingdom Plantae. just because something has plant like qualities doesnt mean that Zoologists stop studying it (they just dont study it as deeply). and i think this applies to Newt and the Obscurus.

i actually took the bait about looking for a little kid its what they kept talking about, plus also early interviews with Ezra Miller saying his role is gonna be more beefy in the second film-- so i thought he's just a bit player here. you lied to me Ezra! *shakes fist*

im almost a hundred percent sure that Ariana was an Obscurus. idk if JKR has gone on record to confirm it, its probably one of those questions she's pestered with that she refuses to answer (probably because its true )

actually on my first screening i did hear "Obscurus", but i knew about Obscurus bookstore at DA so i thought they were talking about the bookstore . also it didnt help that they kept switching out terms Obscurus/ Obscurials and that Newt mumbled way too much. i keep finding myself yelling in my head "Speak up Newt!"
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Old 11-25-2018, 05:42 AM   #8 (permalink)


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**pulls this up again**

so.... FB:Crimes of Grindelwald reveal. what say you eh eh?

Credence is a Dumbledore exciting sure... but i dont even know how thats logically possible unless we retcon about half of the Dumbledore family history

.... for some reason i still think Grindy is lying. the movie is called Crimes of Grindelwald after all

thoughts?
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Old 11-25-2018, 05:47 AM   #9 (permalink)


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Grindelwald is a lying, manipulative pain. Pure and simple. What a better way to twist the prophecy to fit Credence once the truth of the Lestranges was revealed and build his anger towards Albus?
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Old 11-25-2018, 06:20 AM   #10 (permalink)


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theres a video posted over at the News Forum that shows Ezra's reaction when he first heard it. and it SEEMS like theres a bit of "truth" to the whole Aurelius Dumbledore thing that JKR knows more about and Ezra knows a bit more about but naturally cant say anything else.

.... im just so baffle by it because it defies logic .

i think Grindy's lies are based on truth-- but truth thats been taken from other people and events and cobbled together for his own purposes. like in Credence's case: yes theres a Dumbledore who was an Obscurial (Ariana) and yes the Dumbledores have such luck with Phoenixes. Credence is an Obscurial and he's been taking care of this little birdie which turned out to be a Phoenix. so badabing boom-- Credence is a "Dumbledore". and throw in a cool sounding name that starts with an A like the rest of the Dumbledore kids to finish the deal
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Last edited by Steelsheen; 11-25-2018 at 06:22 AM. Reason: (just realized this is my 9,999th post :D #proud )
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