"I suppose it is, yes. I confess I don't know much about that sport but there is the traditional bow before the beginning of the duel. It could easily be considered an integral part of the duel. Very good, Jenovick."

It may have seemed like a simple thing but it was in line with the etiquette and to be followed.



"Correct." Malachi had seen the...awe, was it? He'd seen the awe on the boy's face when Fuller-Thompson was removed from the room and briefly wondered if he needed to be concerned. It occurred to him, only after the fact, that he did have some Gryffindors already who would've found it cool enough to try for themselves. He sincerely hoped this boy would not become one of them.

"The moment you start throwing punches, you've disqualified yourself from the duel. It's not a barbaric game of physical violence. It's a duel, a show of magical prowess."

And suddenly, the Headmaster could also think of some Gryffindors who would end up throwing blows. Merlin. Maybe...he should repeat that....



"He'll be fine." Trent assured, not sounding particularly concerned. The man had charmed the door himself. Knew what it could and would do, what it was capable of. It wouldn't hurt the boy much, just drag him out and put him back where his late behind belonged.

More to the point, Yoon's answer. "Yes, hitting, kicking, biting, all of that. Once you've physically made contact with your opponent, you've crossed the line."



He'd watched the smile leave Kim's face when her housemate was...escorted through the door and had been prepared to tell her she turn her attention back to the lesson. As it so happened, the Prefect didn't have a concentration problem and was soon back on track.

"Duelling itself doesn't have any rules on how one holds a wand, no, but generally there is a right and a wrong way and several variations in between that can also be considered right or wrong depending on the person."

Holding the wand in some positions made doing wand movements more difficult and that would certainly leave you compromised in a duel.



"Right on both accounts, Lindsay." Another that hadn't allowed herself to be distracted by the disruptive Slytherin who'd been removed from the lesson. Good.

"If the agreed upon pace count is 3 and you decide to fire at 2, that's grounds for disqualification. Not to mention it being tremendously dishonourable. If you're going to break the breaks, there's no point beginning a duel. Just go ahead and fight it out." Because there was definitely a difference.

"Once you've tossed the rules, it's no longer a duel."



"That is a rule of friendly duels now, yes. It's what separates them from a duel to the death and all participants are clear on the rules before they engage." That was to say, if they'd agreed on a friendly duel, no one was likely to be getting carted out after.

"Spells that would result in death are typically banned in a friendly duel and of course in the case of death during a friendly duel, the victor will be disqualified. There may even be a case for law enforcement."

Not much solace to the dead opponent but it was something.



It was an interesting question, one he was glad the Hufflepuff had brought up, if for no other reason then for the fact his classmates may benefit. "Depends on the duel." In some ways, this was going to piggyback off the response he'd given to Lindsay.

"In what's accepted as a "duel to the death" the only real rule is don't touch them and be sure to bow before you off them. In the typical duel, it is understood that death may occur and both parties must agree to the risk beforehand. Int he event of a "friendly duel", as you can imagine, the rules substantially increase. For starters, spells that result in death or serious, irreparable damage are banned. The stakes cannot be too high. That sort of thing."

In a friendly duel, no one was trying to damage anyone. Much. "It's also not a true duel if both parties haven't agreed or one agrees under duress."



Oh look, Vance was adding along to that earlier point nicely. It was all tying in nicely with first Lindsay and then Toussaint's responses.

"Correct. As I've mentioned, in friendly or practice duels, it is made clear that death or maiming is not the intent. Consequently, spells that would result in those are banned and anyone using them disqualified." Depending on the damage done...sometimes disqualification wasn't much of a deterrent but people who entered friendly duels were seldom trying to kill each other.

"Rest assured, Vance. Duels at Hogwarts already employ those rules." NO ONE was allowed to try to seriously injure or murder their schoolmates and the duel would end long before then.



"Yes." Trent replied with a nod. "A duel, despite being unpredictable, is a rather structured activity. It requires consent from both parties. Simply attacking someone does not constitute a duel."

As to the silly hats....

"An...interesting means of doling out punishment for losing." He supposed. The man could easily see it being flipped. It only took one particularly enthusiastic student to turn it into a whole trend. Soon everyone would be wearing the hats, even if they hadn't held a wand in a week.



"An excellent point, Kaiser." He'd been worried when the boy seemed to be off in his own world staring at the dummies but was relieved when he came back enough to provide an answer.

"And that's what separates a duel from a fight. One has rules, etiquette, standards and the other....happens." Yes, happen was a good word there. "No thought to playing fair, no thoughts to how deeply you've bowed, just rage or self preservation and the willingness to do anything to arise the victor."

The moment you stopped following the rules was the moment you stopped dueling.



"Drop by my office when you're ready and we can go a few rounds." His offer had been a genuine one. He was always willing to help his students and if duelling was what they needed help with, he'd prefer they practice on him than each other for the most obvious of reasons.

Her skepticism at his dummies hadn't gone unnoticed and the faintest, amused smirk graced his lips. In a moment, Grantham would be able to put her money where her mouth was. For now....that smirk sorta...faded....as she went on...with her answer.

"In a duel to the death, it's hardly fair that after you've killed your opponent you now have to go and kill someone who's stepped in for them." And he doubted the dead would go tagging anyone anyway. But really, if you went through all that trouble and got the next guy dead, you deserved your victory, not another duel. "While some do duel for honour, dying is the end of it and your honour dies with you. In the other kinds of duels, death isn't the goal at all and death usually puts an end to it quickly." While everyone ran around panicking because no one expected it to end that way.

But again. Fair was fair. Dead was dead.



A handshake at the end, huh?

"That would be the sportsman thing to do, yes. A show of no hard feelings, especially in the case of a practice or friendly duel. In others...the opponents might be less willing...or less alive to carry it out but it's a good concept all the same."

It worked well enough for quidditch and wouldn't be too far a stretch.



"Some matches, particularly the ones held at Hogwarts and in school competitions within the other wizarding schools, do have officials to ensure the rules are followed." And for good reason, as the boy had just explained. Someone needed to be there to ensure all the rules were followed.

"It may be a little harder to enforce outside the castle, however. Many don't want to be watched or don't have the patience to go find someone when they could begin the duel right then and there."

For a few reasons, that rule was simply easier to enforce within an environment that was already otherwise controlled.



There, much better. Off the ground and back to the lesson.

"Yes, it's a standard in a duel. A sign of respect. It's not a step that should be skipped over." And seemed to be the one that was most known. At least it would make the next part of the lesson easier for them...

...

Maybe.



He'd heard that. Not the words, but the muffled, incoherent sound of yelling from the other side of the door. What the boy said was of little concern to the Headmaster who'd been content to continue his lesson. Honestly, he didn't know what he expected from the boy beyond that. His other students--even the new ones--knew better than to be late. He hadn't actually had to watch that spell work in all the time it'd been there. Usually, they took him serious when, at the start of term feast, he told them to be on time.

Fuller-Thompson did not heed that warning. Perhaps, even worse, he considered himself to be above that warning but...see..not even the Headmaster's own 12 year old was above that warning. The man meant what he said.

The knocking was not expected, but he'd heard it before hearing Summers and her concern for that door.



Malachi turned his gaze from the door to the Second Year. He didn't have the chance to be delighted by her suggestion and how adorable it was (despite her probably no longer being adorable. He didn't know how kids grew these days). For a moment, the Headmaster considered her question before finally nodding in the direction of the door. "If you'd be so kind as to go get the door for me, Summers." He asked mildly, drawing his wand to remove the charms. Didn't want HER hurt for the Slytherin.

"Snack breaks would be an excellent, if not impractical addition to duels." Yes, he now remembered she'd offered her own response and wouldn't let it die out. "With constant breaks, the stakes are lowered, it's less intense. All the snacks and you'll be lazier than ready to rumble and there's no telling how much longer the duels will last with the constant rejuvenation." 24 hour duel anyone?



"You could be onto something there, Blaze." Yet another to have been shocked by the sudden evacuation of the Slytherin boy. So long as she got back to paying attention, there was no need for him to fuss at her.

"Neutral terrain prevents there being any dirty little tricks that technically weren't against the rules. In general, it's a good idea to both scope out the surroundings ahead of time--if there's time. Otherwise, somewhere that is neither advantageous nor disadvantageous to either party will do. Good thinking."



Behold. She spoke.

"A second, yes." What Grantham had been suggesting earlier while talking about death and dying. "More common among muggles." For whatever reason. "But less practical in a magical duel for the fact that if rules have been set that involve death, they usually outline a victor at that point, not a continued duel and more dying."

Again, "If you killed someone fair and square, it isn't fair to have to do it all over again to get the prize you won back when you killed the first bloke." And was a potential waste of more lives after the person who'd been wanting to prove a point was now gone and couldn't see it.



"An interesting suggestion." A safe word. It wasn't something he'd have ever thought had a place in a duel but apparently the First Year did. "May be a little difficult to enforce though. In the middle of all the spell casting and yelling, one could easily assert that they hadn't heard the word."

And in the absence of veritaserum, who was to say they were lying?



"Yes. Exactly. Thank you for the distinction, James." He'd been alluding to it and was glad to hear some of the students starting to catch on. "Particularly in the past, duels were more of....a showy affair. Sportsman type activity with flashy spells and the like. It's...somewhat evolved with time but is still largely the same. A fight, on the other hand, no rules. All bets are off."

Sometimes, he got the feeling his students got the two confused. From some of the earlier answers he'd gotten, it sounded like they thought every time they wanted to fight, they'd start a duel but if it was a fight they wanted, a duel would only frustrate them.



"That should be a given but is surprisingly not already a rule. You're absolutely right. Once the duel ends, all hard feelings need to end or at the very least, the outcome of the duel needs to be respected." Sore losers were the worst. Sore losers who decided to take matters into their own hands were even worse.

"You could ask for a re-match but even then, there should be no back and forth casting or retaliation outside of the structured duel setting."

Those not mature enough to understand that had no business duelling.



...An interesting thought.

"How would you propose an official ending?" Now that the idea had been brought forward, Trent found himself giving it some serious thought. "If one person is knocked unconscious, thus ending the duel, they can hardly participate in the ending." Did you end the duel while both were still conscious to avoid that? Because then how would you decide who lost if both were still able to duel.

"I suppose in a practice duel where disarming is the only real requirement for victory, it's a concept that could be implemented...yes." Hmm...



And another that had gotten the distinction he'd been alluding to. "You're more or less correct. Dueling is a much flashier form of "fighting"." Loosely termed fighting in his book. "It's more for sport, for glory, to one up someone. A real fight is filled with real intent to harm or kill and a disregard for rules or etiquette. This isn't to say that duelling doesn't have those. You see, dueling can be serious, too. If the opponents decide it's the only way to reach an agreement, then it'll be used but duels have rules and for that reason can't truly be compared to say....an all out wand fight." So yes, there was a difference.

"Points could arguably make it easier to get to the end of the duel, yes. It would certainly take some of the speculation out of it."

Had he ever been in a real duel? "Can't say I have. It just...never came up, I guess." His circle of friends and acquaintances weren't the sort to settle things with a duel of all things.



"I'm inclined to say I like where you're going with that, McCarthy. For the most part." Someone who understood that rules were what they were and it was the failure to comply rather than the rules--most but not all the time--that caused the issues.

"The ban on unsupervised dueling can, to an extent, be attributed to the disasters that came from ignoring the rules." Along with casting spells they had no business messing with and not knowing when to stop. There were many factors that contributed to it in the end, not following the rules was one of them.

Good on her for pointing that out.



"Nothing?"

He was a bit surprised. Castillo was typically one of his students he could count on to give an informed response in the class. Her silence now was puzzling. Was it the dust? Was she slowly succumbing to her allergy?? Was she even breathing anymore?

Questions, he had them but....Malachi was aware of how far the questions had spiralled and was thus willing to wait in case the girl didn't end up going blue in the face and turned out to be alright.



"Well you aren't wrong about that, Whitlock. A lot of the rules are flashy and there for show. The thing is, so is duelling, even now, to a larger extent than it is used for a real fight. As many of your classmates have mentioned, if someone has a serious issue and wants you harmed, they'll hardly take the time to bow, count to three and go through all the formalities, they'll just fight. They'll have a good go at each other with no mind towards consequences. A duel has more structure than that. It's a more formal affair. It has rules. Rules most don't care to follow should they really get into it."

Remove those flashy and seemingly pointless rules and you just had a wand fight. "It may be from the "old times" but it's still tradition and that tradition is still upheld."

Originally Posted by Hey Ju

Originally Posted by FearlessLeader19