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Albert Kettleburn Era All historical records pertaining to Ministry of Magic RPG under Minister for Magic, Albert Kettleburn [IC January 2081 - December 2086; OOC June 2013 - January 2015]

 
 
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Old 01-09-2015, 03:46 AM   #1 (permalink)

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Testing and experimentation have been a means to gain knowledge for centuries yet the experimentation methods being used in laborites have been under debate for just as long. If knowledge is power, just how far are we willing to allow scientists to go to achieve this power? The topics of Charms testing and Animal Experimentation are complex ones but the concerns are quite obvious to all.

Is it morally wrong to perform potentially harmful tests on creatures in the name of benefitting humans? Do we have the right to test Charms that could do more harm than good? Are the laws in place ensuring that the facilities doing the testing are being looked after to minimalize cruelty? The list of questions goes on and on.

If you’re passionate about this particular area of interest, you might want to stop by this tent to see what your potential minister of magic has to say on the subject.

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Old 01-10-2015, 05:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Alicia was teary eyed as she glanced at the booth she was about to go into. After all she was one of those people who loved animals with all of her heart, well the rest of her heart that wasn’t busy loving her family and friends but her pets were a part of her family…but really this was a hot button and yet still hard issue…after all animals were great but what would the charms be tested on?

She made her way over to the booth and waited for the other candidates…who was going to join her today? She wondered and put a nice smile in place.
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Old 01-10-2015, 05:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Gid was walking through the rally listening to questions and answers each of the candidates were given and answering. He smiled and nodded to those he knew and giving kind smiles to anyone he didn't. He approached the charms testing and animal experimentation booth. "I have a question for you Ms. Tanner." He gave her a kind smile, as she looked a little nervous as she stood there waiting for questions to answer. "What is your stand on animal experimentation. Are you for or against it and why?"
 
Old 01-10-2015, 07:26 PM   #4 (permalink)




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Now that she had finished at the Magic Carpet Booth she made her way towards her next place, treatment on creatures. Something she had many thoughts on and ideas. With her own allergies she knew how important testing was, but her feelings would stand on her benefit being used on creatures.


Stopping by to get a cup of water to help with all the talking she had been doing, Vic finally got over to the booth and saw a few people standing and chatting. "Good day everyone." A polite greeting was always good. Hearing Gib's questions she stopped to listen to her competitions answers.
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Old 01-10-2015, 07:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Harmony Skylark's main reason for attending this event was to hear the candidates out where their thoughts on creature testing was concerned. Given her experiences pertaining to this area, as well as the feelings she'd experienced after seeing the poor mutants, she had very strong opinions and would be supporting someone who cared equally as much as she did, that much was for sure.

Noticing that someone had just asked a good starter question, the red head clasped her hands together and waited for the answer.
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Old 01-11-2015, 12:04 AM   #6 (permalink)



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Hadley didn't want to go into this booth, but she had told herself to go into ALL of them and to ask at least one question in each. She wandered up to a random candidate and opened her mouth to ask them a question, when she heard the exact question being asked by someone else. She turned her head to where the question came with and saw a man standing there. She wandered up to them, saw her lovely boss Harmony, and stood next to her to hear the answer. She was very interested in THAT particular question. She didn't know what else to ask, really, but she did want to hear what each of the candidate's views were on testing on animals. Of course, Hadley was fiercely against it. She believed that if people wanted to test something before it was sold to human customers, surely it should be tested on humans. So be it if the results were bad. Test on the subject which would actually use it, and not an animal.
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Old 01-11-2015, 04:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Leaving James with her husband for the day - and apparently her father who was going to pop over for a visit - Kurumi could think of other ways she would rather spend her day off from work, but seeing as she had been transferred to a small reservation here in Britain...she also recognized that it was her duty as a dragonologist to participate in the day's discussions.

Stepping into the area somewhat timidly, she looked around just as a question had been asked of each of the candidates. She was unsure as to whether or not she would ask anything herself, wishing primarily to observe, but it was a field of interest for her. Especially given her line of work in the hatcheries and experimental breeding.

Standing beside a woman (Jessiqua), Kurumi accidentally nudged her elbow with her. "Oh, excuse me," she whispered, her eyes back on the candidates and waited to hear their stance on the matter.
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Old 01-11-2015, 04:34 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Gid was walking through the rally listening to questions and answers each of the candidates were given and answering. He smiled and nodded to those he knew and giving kind smiles to anyone he didn't. He approached the charms testing and animal experimentation booth. "I have a question for you Ms. Tanner." He gave her a kind smile, as she looked a little nervous as she stood there waiting for questions to answer. "What is your stand on animal experimentation. Are you for or against it and why?"
Animal testing, sigh. Alicia turned her attention to Gideon and tried to smile. “Good question sir,” she smiled “honestly I am not for the treatment of the animals that are tested on” she admitted whole-heartedly. “However, if they were not harmed after said testing or during said testing for example if someone tested a tickling charm on an animal I would not be against that…however when one delves into darker realms I am against those” she admitted and bit her lip for a moment. “The reason I am against it is because animals like humans have a sense of consciousness and they should be treated in a like manor to our fellow humans.”

"Testing on animals is like the concept of testing on muggles because they are unable to use magic" she spoke her voice more stern, "and if we would do this, then isn't that despicable in and of itself?"
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Old 01-11-2015, 04:39 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Animal testing, sigh. Alicia turned her attention to Gideon and tried to smile. “Good question sir,” she smiled “honestly I am not for the treatment of the animals that are tested on” she admitted whole-heartedly. “However, if they were not harmed after said testing or during said testing for example if someone tested a tickling charm on an animal I would not be against that…however when one delves into darker realms I am against those” she admitted and bit her lip for a moment. “The reason I am against it is because animals like humans have a sense of consciousness and they should be treated in a like manor to our fellow humans.”

"Testing on animals is like the concept of testing on muggles because they are unable to use magic" she spoke her voice more stern, "and if we would do this, then isn't that despicable in and of itself?"
He listened as she responded, and to be honest agreed with her until she said about if they were not harmed, a charm was fine to be tested on them, like a tickling charm. But hadn't she just said that she wasn't for the treatment of the animals being tested on? "I'm a little confused. You said you are against the treatment of animals that are being tested on but then stated about being fine about the tickling charm for instance. Are you only against certain testing or all testing?" He agreed about no testing on animals. Why would you test anything on someone or something that can defend themselves against your testing?
 
Old 01-11-2015, 05:10 AM   #10 (permalink)




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Victoria stood and listened to the question to Ms. Tanner and then listened to Ms. Tanner's answer, though she found her self a bit confused and realized she wasn't the only one. So some testing seemed alright it seemed? Had she got that correct. Was she able to speak up now? She looked out and since no one else seemed to be asking a question, "You know when I first started at the ministry I signed up to help test a new love potion." She chuckled at the memory. "Crazy right? Well I had my reasons, but one of those reason was I was a sound person that could make my own mind up, I made my mind up to be a part of that test group, I understood what the side effect could be, and I understood I could opt out if needed. Other creatures are not so lucky. They can't talk like us or understand like us. I wasn't the only person to sign up for this study either. There were more. So if we have willing people to help out as we learn, then why are we still testing on innocent creatures that can't say yes and sign on the dotted line?"

Giving the group a nice smile, "I do not agree with testing anything on creatures. In this day an age of magic and success we do not need to keep using such an ancient way. We as a ministry can come up with alternatives to testing. I truly believe if there is a will there is a way and the way is just not to do our testing on creatures." She had no second thoughts on that, her stance was very strong and she would find other ways for the more dangerous testings. No need to put humans in danger either.
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Old 01-11-2015, 05:30 AM   #11 (permalink)



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"What are the alternatives to animal testing," Emmalee interjected, having been listening to the conversation. She certainly was against the unnecessary suffering of creatures, but she wondered how well thought out the candidates' positions were. After all, being opposed to animal testing was certainly en vogue, but viable alternatives were needed, too.

"For charms, potions, and the like that are truly experimental with as yet unknown effects, how are we to explore those? I would hardly sign up to test a charm when no one could actually tell me what the potential risks were because it had never been used on a living creature before." And did restrictions on testing extend to plants that could move or make sound? How sentient and feeling were they? Did honking daffodils register pain? What about mandrakes, stewed to provide antidote for petrification? Everyone could get on board with not testing a new color-changing lipstick on a rabbit, but what, exactly, were the limits? As an experimental botanist, Emmalee had more interest in her plants than in the creatures down the hall, but she thought there could be implications for her work, too.

She cast a look over to the Creatures Head, who she had certainly gotten off on the wrong foot with during that whole mutant crisis. "I certainly would prefer that no animal testing be done, but I am not sure if that is actually feasible."
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Old 01-11-2015, 05:41 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Gid was walking through the rally listening to questions and answers each of the candidates were given and answering. He smiled and nodded to those he knew and giving kind smiles to anyone he didn't. He approached the charms testing and animal experimentation booth. "I have a question for you Ms. Tanner." He gave her a kind smile, as she looked a little nervous as she stood there waiting for questions to answer. "What is your stand on animal experimentation. Are you for or against it and why?"
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He listened as she responded, and to be honest agreed with her until she said about if they were not harmed, a charm was fine to be tested on them, like a tickling charm. But hadn't she just said that she wasn't for the treatment of the animals being tested on? "I'm a little confused. You said you are against the treatment of animals that are being tested on but then stated about being fine about the tickling charm for instance. Are you only against certain testing or all testing?" He agreed about no testing on animals. Why would you test anything on someone or something that can defend themselves against your testing?
"Tickling charms aren't lethal," she admitted, "I am against any lethality used against animals that have been tested on as all creatures human or not should be given the same rights." Alicia nodded...and glanced around at everyone.
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Old 01-11-2015, 05:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Ember wasn't feeling her best lately. She really wasn't. But she had gotten aaallllll dressed up and...felt at least good enough to come argue with some candidates.

Because Ember thus far didn't want to vote for any of them..

So. Come prove your cases, candidates. Mhmm.

It seemed the discussion was already brewing. And some people were okay with....animal testing? IN this day? IN 2085? REALLY? Harmony was already here. Ember put on he game face and stepped towards the booth.

That Emmalee Quinn--Ember heard her stance--and she squinted at the redhead a bit. Merlin. She didn't feel like arguing but at the same time she DID. She wanted to fight for her animals-"It's certainly feasible. It's a matter of money is all it is. Of course it's cheaper to test on unwilling participants who can't decide for themselves whether they want to be tested or not---over paying willing participants." She interjected as well, giving a side-eye at the candidate, Alicia, Tanner? Right?

Tickling animals? That sounded awful. And quite distressful for them. Victoria...Maroon? Culloden? Ember didn't remember. She was completely against animal testing, eh?

Well. Good.
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Old 01-11-2015, 06:35 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Squirming in place as she listened to each of the candidates speak, talking in such extreme terms in regards to zero experimentation of any sort. While she fully understood that the topic of this particular platform was in regards to charms and, she could only assume, potions related circumstances, it was hard for her to get past the off chance that perhaps her livelihood was at stake. Being an experimental breeder - which involved crossbreeding and, in a desperate attempt to save some dragon species that were going extinct, cloning breeds - it was hard to stomach the word 'no' being attached to experimentation.

Even if her profession was, and arguably so, a neutral form of experimentation. One that, despite its motives, did result in fatalities and unforeseen mutations when DNA did not match up the way it was predicted to do due to dormant genes and other factors.

Timidly, and admittedly a bit selfishly, the dragonologist raised her hand to address each of the candidates. "E-Excuse me, I am just wondering if your stance on what appears to be a zero tolerance policy on creature experimentation carries over to experimental breeding?" she asked, swallowing hard for a moment to steady her nervous energy. Just needing a bit of clarification over here...
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Old 01-11-2015, 07:11 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Sherman had arrived at this booth first, as it was his FAVORITE one. Charms Developing was his job, actually, so he had plenty to say on the subject. He never liked to go first, though, and the man waited to hear a few of his opponents' opinions about the topic as well. They seemed to be taking the humane approach, but he had a little difference in his take.

Once Victoria and Alicia had finished speaking, he wheeled forward a bit and faced the crowd.

"Hello everyone! My name is Sherman Clark, and, as most of you know, I'm one of your candidates in the upcoming election for Minister." Introductions were always needed, right? Some of these people may not have been present at the Meet and Greet. "I am quite passionate about this topic, as it directly relates to my current occupation. I am a Charms Developer in the Department of Magical Accidents and Catastrophes. We work on creating and testing new charms every day, and an issue that persistently comes up is animal testing. One of the most pressing negative parts of animal testing is the lack of humanity and apparent disregard for the life of the creature being used. On the other hand, some find the safety of wizardkind to be a more important matter and think that it is more beneficial to our health to go ahead and test on creatures."

He paused to gather his thoughts, then continued. "I am strongly against testing on creatures. I do find it cruel, but this is not my sole reason. Not only is animal testing inhumane, but it is also not reliable or necessarily in the best interest of wizards. First of all, there are many anatomic, metabolic, and cellular differences between humans and magical creatures, which make them poor test subjects from the start. The results acquired from animal tests may not be accurate, therefore providing the possibility of safety hazards for citizens. And that is what we are trying to avoid in the first place, is it not?"

Not to mention the current events associated with testing. "I hope you are all familiar with the magical cosmetics testing facility break-in that ultimately resulted in a somewhat recent mutant scare? Not only were those creatures harmed and done a great deal of injustice throughout the whole ordeal, but it posed yet another threat to safety of the residents of Wizarding Britain." Was that a good enough example for them? He hoped so.

"For these reasons, I am against animal testing. At this time, there are no magical alternatives to animal testing of which we are aware. However, Muggles have developed many successful methods that I hope to work from and adapt to fit our unique situations involving magic. But I do not feel that the present lack of alternatives justifies the testing of creatures." After all, no one would have drive to find new ways to test things if they still had the ability to do whatever they pleased with creatures.

Which brought him to his next point. "Many animal rights activists are cognizant of the fact that the governments of some European countries, including the French, Polish, and Spanish Ministries, have laws in place to make magically testing on Creatures illegal. If elected Minister, to better protect the safety of all beings- creature OR human- in Wizarding Britain, I would work to do the same." He smiled his usual goofy grin again, noticeably relaxing. "Feel free to ask me any questions you may have, and thank you for your time."

Aaand, for the young experimental breeder? "In my opinion, that wouldn't fall under magical testing. My wife is the manager of Gringotts, and both dragons that guard their vaults are actually cross-breeds. This leads me to believe that experimental breeding contributes to society." He winked. See, kiddo? She was safe.

Merlin, he needed some water.
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Old 01-11-2015, 11:38 PM   #16 (permalink)


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Saxon arrived to the charms and testing and animal experimentation booth, more for herself, and her little brother Tag, than anything else. Although she only had one pet, he, on the other hand, was a different story, but it seemed like they were both on the same boat about animal cruelty on testing and experimentation. So there was nothing better to do than get more insight onto this topic.

So far it seemed that all the candidates were against animal testing, to a degree of one way or another. Saxon listened to what everyone had to say and nodded here and there when she agreed with a point.

An then Mr. Clark, whom seemed familiar, to Saxon. She believed he'd given her the love potion from way back when. Anyway, he came into the topic and Saxon found herself almost agreeing on everything he was saying. The blonde was definitely against all animal testing that occurred, whether muggle or magical.

"Any sort of testing is cruel in any way, whether it be humans or animals. So, my question is, what would be an alternative to testing, then? As Mr. Clark said, animals bodies are so different than humans and can cause problems to humans, when it may have not to the animals that had been tested on." She supposed plants could work, to an extent, but maybe only on particular things. It all came back to the point of, whatever was being tested, would have a different reaction compared to a human.

Was there even an humane way to do any type of testing?
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Old 01-12-2015, 02:59 AM   #17 (permalink)




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Just as Victoria finished speaking she smiled as someone else had a question. This was a nice setting she had to admit. She liked the back and forth of the discussion. Such a better way to do this then that silly little meet and greet. "I think the alternatives would need to be researched a bit, but to start we could get sponsors for products to be able to pay participants. Say it's a beauty product if the shop or company that would like to put their name on the product to sell it fund the testing then it would be easier for people to take part in it." Thinking about what she said with the charm she was fully understanding. "Neither would I. When it comes to spells instead of potions or beauty products, we could have testing areas with lifelike dummies to try it out first. So then you aren't hurting a real person, but the affect can be shown on an actual object." That would make it easier in her eyes, but again it would take a bit of research to make sure it was effective.

Hearing someone else speak up she smiled at Ember, "Yes Ember you make a good point and that is why I feel fundraising and sponsoring experiments is the best way to go to get that money. The ministry of course would back the department and help where they can as long as budget would allow. With budget being one of the topics here today, that would have to be taken into consideration and is why other opportunities would be looked at to make sure departments are still being successful without harming creatures." She got to see one of the mutants first hand and would not like it to happen again.

"That is a very interesting question." One that she would admit to herself she hadn't thought about, "I feel when it comes to experimental breeding that it is a very touchy subject just like testing products and spells. I feel that plenty of research needs to be done about the creatures before doing any type of experimentation. I am not a huge fan of it myself, but I see it's importance as well. So when it comes to experimental breeding I would have to say as long as the experts know what they are doing and can prove the research behind it, then I don't see a problem with it." but they better have all their documents and proof of the safety and reasons.
Hearing the older candidate start to speak she stood and listened, goodness could he talk. He had many good points and she just nodded hearing them all. It felt like the meet and greet all over again when a few of them spoke lengthy speeches, but maybe that came with age.

Turning as she heard Saxon, she smiled, "Well Saxon, as I was saying before, I think finding funding so humans could be paid to participate in the experiments would be the best option, but alternatives such as life like objects for spells could be looked into as well. Working together as a team with the departments, I feel we could easily find alternatives together so that no more creatures will be harmed just to benefit our lives."
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:15 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Ember was listening to them ALL. Closely. And she was taking MUCH MENTAL NOTAGE here. Because if she did decide to vote--and let's face it, she probably would--she wanted to vote for the ABSOLUTELY best person possible.

And of course, they all had a lot to say.

Firstly, was the older man, Sherman Clark. He was cute. Seemed nice. But Ember was squinting at him like any of the others. He made a lot of sense. She liked his answer--but she still had quiiiiite a few questions for him. "As a person in the Creatures Department at the ministry, it has definitely come to my attention that not everyone in our...ahem, establishment cares as much about the wellfare for animals as we do--" she met eyes with Harmony. "And--I just wanted to know how you really expect to convince those around you to make the changes that need to be made about creature testing?" she asked..hoping her question made sense. It made sense in her brain. "I mean--your speech to us is quite convincing to ME--but to others who aren't in our same awareness--I just want to know if you really think you can achieve those laws that, as you stated, other countries have."

Because yes, this was important.

Then, she turned to Victoria Culloden. "Same question to you, Ma'am." she said confidently. "How would YOU go about getting your agenda across? Are you both giving us empty promises?" Ember wasn't rude.

But she also wasn't stupid.
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Old 01-15-2015, 04:18 AM   #19 (permalink)




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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayquilz View Post
Ember was listening to them ALL. Closely. And she was taking MUCH MENTAL NOTAGE here. Because if she did decide to vote--and let's face it, she probably would--she wanted to vote for the ABSOLUTELY best person possible.

And of course, they all had a lot to say.

Firstly, was the older man, Sherman Clark. He was cute. Seemed nice. But Ember was squinting at him like any of the others. He made a lot of sense. She liked his answer--but she still had quiiiiite a few questions for him. "As a person in the Creatures Department at the ministry, it has definitely come to my attention that not everyone in our...ahem, establishment cares as much about the wellfare for animals as we do--" she met eyes with Harmony. "And--I just wanted to know how you really expect to convince those around you to make the changes that need to be made about creature testing?" she asked..hoping her question made sense. It made sense in her brain. "I mean--your speech to us is quite convincing to ME--but to others who aren't in our same awareness--I just want to know if you really think you can achieve those laws that, as you stated, other countries have."

Because yes, this was important.

Then, she turned to Victoria Culloden. "Same question to you, Ma'am." she said confidently. "How would YOU go about getting your agenda across? Are you both giving us empty promises?" Ember wasn't rude.

But she also wasn't stupid.
She looked up to hear a question from Ember. Knowing the young woman was from creatures she wasn't surprised to see she had a voice and an opinion for this topic. "Well with everything you have seen here today, not just at this booth there will always be people against things. Even my opponents have different views on the same topics, but with the way my views are, I just don't feel it's right to test on creatures. So I will help the department anyway I can to prove this as a fact. We will come up with the best evidence, have seminars to educate people on different ways to test products and spells. I will work very hard to get my point across and to persuade the people that feel it is fine to test on creatures to change their minds."

As she took a quick pause she began to smile, "Have you ever heard the term put your money where your mouth is? Well I have in this case. Like I said earlier, I signed up to do an experimental potion. I have a voice and could pick to participate or not. Seeing that there were plenty of other people willing to do the same, I don't feel many will need convincing if we already have a smooth transition into something else already working. Now it could get trickier for the more dangerous experiments, but that is where some of my previous ideas such as the human like dummies could come into play." They were wizards, they had to be able to figure something out other then using a poor harmless creature.
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Old 01-15-2015, 04:45 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayquilz View Post
Ember was listening to them ALL. Closely. And she was taking MUCH MENTAL NOTAGE here. Because if she did decide to vote--and let's face it, she probably would--she wanted to vote for the ABSOLUTELY best person possible.

And of course, they all had a lot to say.

Firstly, was the older man, Sherman Clark. He was cute. Seemed nice. But Ember was squinting at him like any of the others. He made a lot of sense. She liked his answer--but she still had quiiiiite a few questions for him. "As a person in the Creatures Department at the ministry, it has definitely come to my attention that not everyone in our...ahem, establishment cares as much about the wellfare for animals as we do--" she met eyes with Harmony. "And--I just wanted to know how you really expect to convince those around you to make the changes that need to be made about creature testing?" she asked..hoping her question made sense. It made sense in her brain. "I mean--your speech to us is quite convincing to ME--but to others who aren't in our same awareness--I just want to know if you really think you can achieve those laws that, as you stated, other countries have."

Because yes, this was important.

Then, she turned to Victoria Culloden. "Same question to you, Ma'am." she said confidently. "How would YOU go about getting your agenda across? Are you both giving us empty promises?" Ember wasn't rude.

But she also wasn't stupid.
That was a good question!

"Ma'am, part of what I told you about my views on creature testing were opinions, but the other part of it was fact, was it not? It IS scientifically proven that animals do not have the same genetic make up and bodily functions as the human body does, therefore rendering them poor test subjects. It IS widely known that there were mutations that occurred due to testing magical cosmetics on beasts. It IS a fact that creature testing not only hurts animals, but has and will continue to hurt wizards as well. Anyone who doesn't support my views? Let them argue with things that are blatantly true! But with the right evidence to support my case- our case, if you will- all we need is hard work, dedication, and drive. I would encourage my fellow Charms Developers to work on new testing methods that could involve wizard samples instead of creature ones, and I'm sure we'd have the full support of Department Head Ashburry-Hawthorne. A little motivation is all it takes."
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:45 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Jamie looked around the booth. He was really interested in what questions the people of the beautiful wizarding world had him. He wasn't sure if his opinion was what they wanted to hear but doing very harmful experiments on harmless animals was cruel and for the benefits of humans. Jamie glanced over towards some of the people that were asking Queen Victoria the questions. He new for one that if he was to be asked that question that he would do everything in his power to make change. Jameson was waiting for a question to hit him. He knew that he was one of the least known candidates but that didn't mean that he didn't know anything or didn't have an opinion or action to make things better in the ministry.
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