I want to discuss that law, that until you're 17 years old, you may not use magic outside school. When I've discussed it before, people have brought forwards arguements for why it's a good idea. Like most kids probably aren't mature enough to use magic with care, or that muggle parents won't be able to stop magic, if it gets out of hand. And there's also a law, that not even adult wizards and witches may use magic in front of muggles, unless they have to in order to save their own or someone else's life.

But still, come on! Even if Harry had been the one, who had levitated that cake in "Chamber of secrets", what would have been the big deal? He would almost have been expelled from Hogwarts for levitating a cake during the summer? And that it really was Dobby, who had done it, just makes it worse. Those ministry idiots almost wanted to expel a boy from school, not only despite it being a very minor thing, but also despite it not even having been him, who had done it! I'm sorry, but unless they can tell a difference between a wizard's magic and a house elf's magic, they should just butt out.

And then, we have the incident in "Order of the phoenix", when Harry produced a patronus and was almost expelled for that! I mean, shouldn't the ministry have made sure, that all their dementors were where they should be, rather than having a cow over a fifteen-year-old doing magic during the summer? And they also made a big deal out of Harry having done it in front of Dudley, a muggle, even though he was his cousin, who knew about his magic! Harry was lucky to have Dumbledore step in and convince most members of the council, that there actually had been dementors about, so he could be acquitted.

To sum this up, while it might be necessary to have age limits, this underage magic law seems rather weird, and it just seems to be there to give Harry more trouble, as if he needed that. Especially since the ministry can't even tell, if the kid or someone else did the magic, only that magic had been done around him or her, which is just stupid. That way, kids with magical parents can do whatever they want, while someone living with muggles can be accused of something, that a house elf did, and can't even save their cousin's soul from being sucked out of him without almost being expelled from school. And there's another thing too. Why would someone be expelled from school for something, that happened during the summer break? It just doesn't make sense.

The thing that gets me, isn't the fact there's a law against it. It's that JKR changed the rules from CoS to what...DH? In Chamber of Secrets I think it was one of the Twins that tells Harry the Ministry can't tell WHO performed magic, but they can tell WHERE it was performed. It's also mentioned a few times that the only way to know what wand cast a spell was to take said wand and cast some spell (can't remember which) to tell the history of spells it had performed. Then in the 4th book the Weasleys use magic to get to the Dursley's through the fireplace and turn Dudley's tongue to normal size after eating that candy. I don't see how Harry didn't get in trouble for that one if he had gotten in trouble for Dobby's use of magic. In another book I'm pretty sure Tonks helped Harry pack by using magic which he didn't get in trouble for either.
Then Moody tells Harry about the Trace in I forget which book as I read them mostly back to back. But, I think underage magic is pretty important to the series so why is the Trace not mentioned until almost the end of the series? The Trace is how the Ministry is supposed to track the PERSON that cast the spell, not just the general area.
The scene in the tunnel I never understood as it was an attempt on saving Dudley's life, now this doesn't make sense to me because if it didn't involve dementors, but really anything else that threatened Dudley's life or Harry's, would he still have gotten into trouble? Did he need to somehow quickly check in with the ministry before preforming magic, I mean this doesn't really add up to me. I understand no one was supposed to know the dementors were sent there, but what if, I don't know say something insanely heavy were to fall and almost squish Dudley like a bug and Harry used magic to prevent it, would he still have gotten into trouble?
From the way it was always changed, it seems like it was just their to give Harry more grief than he already had to deal with.

Yeah, it just seemed to be there to give Harry even more grief, didn't it?

Like I said before, I can understand if there are some age limits to certain things, like when you're old enough to apparate. We have those among us muggles too. But I think the ministry were far too strict about this underage magic thing.

I agree that the Ministry if far too strict in this matter. They shouldn't treat all spells the same, as if moving something around was the same as inflateing someone.

I think anyone under 18 shouldn't be allowed to practices magic.

If they do, it should be done in a safe manner.

Practice Safe Magic I always say! When that wand is a tingling, make sure you aim it carefully!

I think the underage magic law pertains more to muggle-borns or witches and wizards living with muggles than witches and wizards that have magical parents.
But I also think it's not cool that people that are underage can be blamed for magic done around them. It seems like sometimes the Ministry is just looking for someone to punish and uses the underage law to do so.

I don't think all spells should fall under the one same rule though. For example, I don't see the problem with a 12-year-old levitating a cake, even if it had been Harry, who had done it.

Indeed, who would notice if some under age did magic at the Burrow, for example? I don't see how Fred or George could keep themselves from using their wands during an entire summer holidays, even though we have no real proof, that they broke that law (and Molly would probably NOT be happy if they did). And even if they had broken it, they would hardly have been in any trouble with the ministry anyway, as long as the magic happened in a magical home. So it's a really unfair law.

Umbridge sure used that law to get Harry into trouble. And yeah, like I said in my original post, if they can't tell the difference between a house elf's magic and a wizard's magic, the entire system with the Trace is just flawed anyway.

I think the other times when magic was performed in the Dursley's house, like when Arthur fixed Dudley's tongue, Tonks packed Harry's trunk, or Dumbledore picked up Harry, they had to inform people at the ministry that they would be there and would be using magic. If the ministry knew ahead of time, then Harry couldn't get in trouble.

As for the time in Order of Phoenix, the ministry was purposely giving Harry a hard time, because they wanted to discredit him. They normally wouldn't go that far for underage magic, but the whole feud between Dumbledore and the Minister drove the Minister to try and treat Harry harshly.

I think it's a good idea to restrict all underage magic, even for silly things like levitating a cake. Even little magic could mean lots of work if it exposes them to Muggles. Also, it'd be a nightmare trying to regulate which magic is acceptable and which isn't. Restricting all magic is for everyone's safety, especially since not all kid wizards can control the magic correctly. Sure, a 12-year-old can probably get behind the wheel of a car and drive. But most would do it incorrectly, and most don't have experience enough... so they'll probably crash if they get nervous. That's why it's better to restrict them all.

I agree that the trace only being able to detect magic in the area, but not the caster, is kind of dumb though. It's convenient for the plot though.

But is expulsion from school really a fitting punishment for levitating a cake, or even making a patronus? Let's continue with your own example, that a 12-year-old drove a car, even though he or she is too young for it. He or she would get a police record, but hardly be expelled from school, especially not if it happened far away from his or her school during the summer holidays. So I don't see why it would be so in the magic society, except of course for plot reasons. I'm glad you agree about the trace being stupid though.

And besides, levitating a cake is not nearly as dangerous as driving a car. Maybe some spells should be okay for students to do who don't live near Muggles. Take Hogsmeade, for instance. Many wizards live there, and there are no muggles anywhere around. I don't see why those students would be expelled from school.

Harry only got a warning for the cake, so there was no severe punishment. As for the Patronus, I explained how the Ministry was looking for an excuse to discredit Harry as a liar and attention-seeker... that's why he almost got expelled.

The threat of expulsion is to reinforce the seriousness of doing magic underage when unqualified. The comparison I used to driving underage was just to show that strict punishments for kids doing things they aren't qualified to do is for their own safety. Look what happened when 12-year-old Harry and Ron combined magic and driving... they almost died.

But again, unless you're actually sentenced to juvenile prison or something like that, no one in real life is expelled, or even gets warnings of expulsion, for things happening outside school during the summer holidays. Even if Harry would have deserved a punishment for levitating the cake (if it had been him and not Dobby) or producing the patronus (if no dementors had been around), expulsion from school doesn't sound right.

It annoys me that in the films they include moments when during the holidays Harry produces magic. When Dobby levitates the cake I wondered surely they could tell who produced the magic and also I am sure that if they couldn't tell it was him then what about ina family like the Weasleys' or the Malfoys' how would they tell if Lucius used "Accio" or Draco did ect. Not only that but others would have house-elves too and then they must have some system to find if it was the house-elves fault and so on.

No, they don't, which is another reason why that law is just wrong.

I think that the "No underage magic law" was only there for protection well now i dont really think we need protection. All that law was there for was to keep track on everyone and i think its stupid.

It sure is.

This law isn't completely fair since it can't be determined who performed a spell, only that where it was performed. Basically, kids with magical parents can use magic all the time if their parents allow them, but muggleborns and kids like Harry can be blamed even if they didn't do anything. Also, many kids are mature enough to freely use magic long before the law allows them. There should be a test to determine whether the person is capable of using magic unsupervised or not.

I believe the Ministry's too strict in this matter. All spells should not be treated in the same way. Wizards in magical families are supervised by their family members, so there is not MUCH need to restrict them. However, spells performed by muggle-borns or by wizards living with Muggles (like Harry, for example) can cause the muggles to know about the wizarding world, so these must be restricted.