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| The Dark Mark A forum for discussion of the more mature aspects of the Harry Potter books.
DISCLAIMER: This forum will contain more mature discussion and ideas. Do not enter unless you are willing and able to conduct yourself in a calm and respectful manner. | 
02-27-2006, 05:06 AM
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#1 (permalink)
|  Book 7 Theorist
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Jack FrostFaerie
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Magical Education |  Snape: The Real Mystery
Snape is a mysterious character and this small editorial, mind I call it that, will discuss two main questions from the Harry Potter series.
- Why did Dumbledore trust Snape so much?
- Why did Fawkes not save Dumbledore?
I believe that Snape has saved Harry's life six times, once per book.
Book 1: Snape muttered the counter-curse to Quirrel's spell, giving Harry a chance for survivial.
Skip Book 2 for the time being.
Book 3: Snape brought Harry back to the castle, preventing further dementor attacks.
Book 4: Snape helped stun Barty Crouch Jr.
Skip Book 5 for the time being.
Book 6: Snape told the death eaters: Quote:
"Potter belongs to the Dark Lord - we are to leave him!" - Page 603, Chapter 28 HBP, U.S. Edition
In book 2 I believe that Snape grabbed the Sorting Hat, entered the Chamber of Secrets, gave the hat to Harry and successfully gouged out the basilisk's eyes, before also crying on Harry and healing Harry.
In book 5, Snape dove in between Harry and an avada kedavra curse.
Both of the last two circumstances he did in his other form. His form that made Dumbledore trust him so much. His form as an animagus: Fawkes.
This would easily explain Fawkes' absence on the tower, as well as Snape's absence in the Department of Mysteries. Here is a timeline of the night that Dumbledore died.
1. Snape rushed up to the Astronomy tower, where he killed Dumbledore, on Dumbledore's orders, we are assuming.
2. Snape left, saving Harry's life once again.
3. Snape apparated to another place, before apparating back and transforming into Fawkes, telling all of his sorrow for what he had done.
4. Snape disapears once again, for his meeting with the Dark Lord.
There is a little more evidence behind the theory: Quote:
"Pushing Harry roughly aside, he knelt over Malfoy, drew his wand, and traced it over the deep wounds Harry's curse has made, muttering an incantation that sounded almost like a song." - Page 523, Chapter 24 HBP, U.S. Edition
This looks normal until the last part. Why should it sound like a song? Why even add that little detail?
This only makes us ponder more, as well as I have searched all six books. Never have I seen Snape and Fawkes in a scene together. Never, despite their importance.
I hope this has interested you and I would love feedback, even if you think I am crazy. 
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02-27-2006, 05:38 PM
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#2 (permalink)
| | Demiguise
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: England
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Accidents & Catastrophes |
mmm good evidence and theory but I dont believe it, as I believe Snape didnt kill Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders.
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02-27-2006, 06:31 PM
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#3 (permalink)
| | Erkling
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: in the kitchen cooki
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Sean Lemon
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cant apparate at hogwarts.. sorry dont believe it..
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02-27-2006, 09:26 PM
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#4 (permalink)
| Book 7 Theorist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zekk cant apparate at hogwarts.. sorry dont believe it.. Fawkes can though. We witness it in Order of the Pheonix. Also, he could have apparated off Hogwarts grounds.
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02-28-2006, 01:25 AM
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#5 (permalink)
| | Yeti
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Kanto
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Madame Primpernelle's Beautifying Potions Shopkeeper | ♛ Certified Pogrebin Hunter ♛ Lucki Minaj ☠ RAH RAH I'M A DUNGEON DRAGON ☠
That is very interesting but a Phoenix is a Magical Creature and I don't know any Magical Creature Animagi. These are the Animagi we know:
Falcon (Aesalon) -> Falcon
Sirius -> Dog
Cliodna ->Bird
Morganna -> Bird
McGonagall -> Cat
Peter -> Rat
James -> Stag
Rita-> Beetle | |
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02-28-2006, 01:53 AM
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#6 (permalink)
| Book 7 Theorist
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Jack Frost Faerie
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Where did you find the information on the ones that aren't in the books?
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02-28-2006, 01:58 AM
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#7 (permalink)
| | Plimpy
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Library,AX,& ALA
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Nikky Suzume
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Hmmm...very good evidence.Very convincing.I'm now divided.I believe it, and then, I don't.Wow, if you can try to convince me, I will be amazed, and if you succed in convincing me to belive your theory, I'll do whatever you want me to do to help with your theory.
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02-28-2006, 02:04 AM
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#8 (permalink)
| | Yeti
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Kanto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parvatifan Where did you find the information on the ones that aren't in the books? Harry Potter Lexicon has a list of the Aminagi.  | |
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02-28-2006, 05:56 PM
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#9 (permalink)
| | Horklump
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 62
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whoa! that is a great theory and i would love to believe that but of course i need more proof!! But that is soo amazing. I do hope snape is truly good because i kindof started to like him and i just can't imagine someone killing dumbledore out of hate!! that is to terrible to even think about
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03-02-2006, 10:46 AM
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#10 (permalink)
|  Keeper of the G/H snogClabbert
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cairo , Egypt...
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Quote:
3. Snape apparated to another place, before apparating back and transforming into Fawkes, telling all of his sorrow for what he had done.
What?? No, I don't think so at all. I believe that Snape had saved Harry's life many of times but Snape is not Fawkes. Quote:
"Potter belongs to the Dark Lord - we are to leave him!" - Page 603, Chapter 28 HBP, U.S. Edition
This quote really puzzled me. The DEs were not going to kill Harry but only torturing him.. Why he ordered to not do that?? I really want to know..May be this is an evidence that Snape made what DD ordered him to kill him.
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03-02-2006, 06:17 PM
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#11 (permalink)
| | Hippocampus
Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: England
Posts: 301
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You have a point actually! May wel be. Will have a think for you! lol I'm half convinced too. I need more convincing to be certain. 
Last edited by Steffi; 03-02-2006 at 06:19 PM.
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03-18-2006, 02:18 AM
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#12 (permalink)
| | Flobberworm
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Why don't you just call me and ask what my number is, huh? HUH!?!
Posts: 20
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very very good point ur slowly persuading me
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03-24-2006, 03:39 PM
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#13 (permalink)
| A Dirty Bird Chimaera
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Never Land...
Posts: 7,337
None |
Great theory and evidence but I cannot bring myself to believe that Snape and Fawkes are one and the same. Need to have somethiing more definative to totally convince me on this line of thinking. It is interesting though and I applaude you for the thought and work put into your theory.
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03-25-2006, 03:13 PM
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#14 (permalink)
| | Horklump
Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: somewhere in germany
Posts: 47
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The problem with such theories is: You NEVER know if they are right or wrong until the next book is out. At HP it doesn´t matter if something is possible or not. Or imaginary or not. NOTHING is imaginary at HP.
So even when this theory of snape being fawkes, seems to be very far fetched first. You never know what JKR is up to.
Finally. I´m happy about people like you who look beside the ways and thuink further.
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03-27-2006, 02:27 PM
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#15 (permalink)
| | Bundimun
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 38
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one thing is sure that dumbledore had a deep faith in snape and it is very hard to believe that snape did broke that faith, i mean why dumbledore pleaded before snape it's a big mystery for me  | |
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03-27-2006, 08:28 PM
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#16 (permalink)
| | Bundimun
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cardboard Box on Diagon Alley
Posts: 26
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Interesting Idea about Fawkes being snape, but what about Fawkes going into the flame at DD funeral? I also wonder about the Phoenix coming from the ashes in book 2 when Harry is in DD's office. Do animagus's grow old? I don't know, but it is very interesting. The song part about the incantation has me though, authors never write something without it having a purpose. I just don't think that snape is an animagus of a Phoenix.
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03-29-2006, 05:18 AM
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#17 (permalink)
| | Kappa
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: 3° 8N' 101° 42E'
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Snape = Fawkes? no way.
but i halfly believe Snape killed DD on DD's orders.
half because i still question about Snape's loyalty.
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03-29-2006, 05:27 AM
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#18 (permalink)
| | Nogtail
Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the Italian bar, talking with the Godfather
Posts: 333
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I gotta agree with Valera, NO WAY, NO HOW is Snape Fawkes, that's just insane!
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03-29-2006, 12:52 PM
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#19 (permalink)
| | Bundimun
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 38
|  Another Evidence!!!
i was reading HBP again and i picked up something that stengthens this theory.yet you may say its not a big brakthrough. here it goes stillgurl52702 Quote:
'snape!' he said, very loudly, and Fawks gave a soft squawk behind them - Pg 511, Cpt 25 HBP
whaddaya say.
Last edited by da chosen un; 03-31-2006 at 01:22 PM.
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03-30-2006, 11:13 PM
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#20 (permalink)
| | Chizpurfle
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: uk
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Najini
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ummmm I think Snape will be a Hero, he will helps harry like her son 
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04-08-2006, 07:11 AM
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#21 (permalink)
|  Dairy QueenCrup
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: I'd tell you...but then there might be some...uh...repricussions....
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everytime i read one more theory, i wonder if i dare call myself an hp fan. that seems very possible.
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04-15-2006, 01:33 AM
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#22 (permalink)
| | Glumbumble
Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Shi-Town
Posts: 178
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sounds interesting and sorta believable but i don't believe it because he might have somehow forseen harry's need to bring back voldemort so he saved him then but the other times he might have saved him so dumbledor didn't suspected him and then the other times he just saved him by accedent.
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05-01-2006, 10:31 PM
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#23 (permalink)
|  Reality PoliceOfficial -()- Seeker
Conspiracy TheoristPhoenix
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The world's bottom!
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Currently: Diane Entelequia
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You know, if this was the real thing, I would really be shocked! But in a good way. Meaning to say, oh dear, so didn't see that coming EVER  And I guess it isn't completely impossible. He would be an unregistered animagus, of course, like James and cia. What strikes me as odd is that most animagus turn into non-magical creatures (stag, dog, rat, etc) and turning into a phoenix looks unlikely.
Plus, because this does look unlikely: Fawkes had a burning day in 2year, in Dumbledore's Office, so that means Snape would need to have the life-spawn of a phoenix for enough time to become old, be re-born and grow up again so when he is transformed back into human he would have his original age? Ah... just saying it would make things really complicate.
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05-02-2006, 12:51 AM
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#24 (permalink)
| Book 7 Theorist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by She-Who-Is-Not-To-Be-Psycho! You know, if this was the real thing, I would really be shocked! But in a good way. Meaning to say, oh dear, so didn't see that coming EVER And I guess it isn't completely impossible. He would be an unregistered animagus, of course, like James and cia. What strikes me as odd is that most animagus turn into non-magical creatures (stag, dog, rat, etc) and turning into a phoenix looks unlikely.
Plus, because this does look unlikely: Fawkes had a burning day in 2year, in Dumbledore's Office, so that means Snape would need to have the life-spawn of a phoenix for enough time to become old, be re-born and grow up again so when he is transformed back into human he would have his original age? Ah... just saying it would make things really complicate. That's the stuff that cornfuses me. Whether he can control what age he is when he gets back or not.
Since he would be a magical animagus, he could possibly use magic or something. This theory, interests me, yet I find loopholes in my own things all the time. It's unlikely, but if I could fill some holes, it would be a lot more solid.
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06-05-2006, 06:17 PM
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#25 (permalink)
| | Hippocampus
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Potter's Photo Album
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Jo Moore
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Good idea aout Fawkes but I still don't trust snape. He hates harrys guts because:
:Hes Famous
: His father was good Looking and talented.
: Harry is like his father
:Harrys talented.
: Harry saw into Snapes Memory.  umbledore loves him.
Of course, if I'm wrong about this when the final book comes out, please feel free to mail me and say I told you so.
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