Severus Snape and the Deathly Hallows


Discuss the Book from Snape´s or Snape fan´s point of view. How did it feel? Did you think there wasn´t enough of Snape in the book? Did you really think he had turned his back on Order and was being the Dark Lord´s loyal servant to the end? Did you never lose faith and just knew he was Dumbledore's man all this time? What about The Prince's Tale?


We welcome also your copy/pastings and quotes of your own posts from the DH spoiler thread here, because you never can have too many copies of your opinions around Don´t forget to post also there; you know that there will always be the lambs that don´t like our beloved Professor who will do all their might to make him seem like a snivelling idiot. Which he certainly not is/was!

Oh my gosh, The Prince's Tale was my favorite chapter in the entire book! We all knew he liked/loved Lily, but still... It was sad. And it made me cry when I was reading it... twice.

As for where his loyalties were, I had always thought he was just kind of working for himself. I was glad to find out that it was Dumbledore he was loyal to. And finding out about the planned murder made it much easier for me to mourn Snape.

I actually started believing that he's with Voldemort... But then...then came "The Prince's Tale" which cleared things out... It came as a shock to me the fact that he loved Lily... And that was the saddest part in the whole book... His love for Lily...
I always try not to cry when I read a book, but at "The Prince's Tale" my eyes were in tears for a few minutes... Very very sad... I actually hated James at that point, for the way he treated Snape...

Snape forever

*sob* How could JKR....? *sobs harder* I loved The Prince's Tale, it was so sad, I cried, but I still loved it. I knew Severus loved Lily....There was not enough Severus in the book, but I would have settled with less Severus and a hapy ending for him than more Severus with his current fate......Severus Snape will live on forever in our hearts.

It's funny, but my friend is starting to hate James for the way he treated Snape, and my friend's a Gryffindor. James really was terrible toward Snape. It was so sad reading that chapter, seeing Snape's reaction when Lily got sorted into Gryffindor and they started to pull gradually apart. One can only imagine how he felt when she married James, then her death, well, we got a taste of that here in The Prince's Tale. I'm so glad that chapter was included in the book, it explained everything so perfectly, but there are still so many things we will never know about Snape. I guess it is all up to the imagination...

I think there should have been a bit more of Severus. I can't read The Prince's Tale, it's too painfull. But every night I read his....that chapter over and over and over and it's....*Sobs very hard* I pleaded with my friend to forgive him before she knew he was....Anyway- she didn't listen. She said she would And when she finally read the chapter, of course she changed her mind. But i said, And no one wants to listen!! *Hugs Severus*...excuse me...*Sobs*

About Snape's death

Snape was a real Slytherin and the way he died makes somehow sense. I'm not quite sure yet what somehow implies, but...

It was the house of Slytherin which gave him both, troubles and an identity. His whole life seems to be influenced by the silver snake. Why shouldn't his death look like a snake as well?

The scene reminded me of Laokoon, who has been killed by snakes sent by Athena. Well, Snape wasn't protecting his son, but Dumbledore told him to inform Harry as soon as Voldemort wont send Nagini away anymore. Snape was the person who knew. Maybe that is a bit farfetched, I know.

Certainly he was someone who could have helped Harry (like Sirius and Dumbledore) and that's why he had to die. The book is called "Harry Potter" after all, and everything and everyone who could have stopped Harry becoming a "whole", grown-up person, had to be removed.

I´m bringing some discussion from the chat thread here aswell:

Awwrite! She´s been thinking a lot about the motives of that teacher. She kind of wants to know why he was the way he was ...

We had one terrible male teacher when I was even younger than Hogwarts age, and I have to confess I never would´ve made any excuses for him ... on the other hand he was really ugly and - old He wasn´t biased, though, he didn´t favour anyone. In his eyes we were all crap.

A common enemy unites the classes, so even worst enemies were like best friends while talking about that git. But Our Snape is not like that, he is not ...

He surely is one misunderstood hero, and he is not either a git or a coward.

The Go-Go Pressie has spoken!

Maybe he sensed Harry outside and thought it was the time? Maybe he felt he had completed his task and wanted to go on. He said he wished he was dead after Lily was killed. I know it was years ago, but his feelings hadn´t obviously changed.

I cannot believe he was running around without bezoar. Maybe he would´ve used it hadn´t Harry appeared to collect the memories.

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If there's something I didn't like about book 7, it's how she wrapped the fates of some charries. She just seems to give some of her best characters rather underrated deaths, in a way. Idk, oh well. She certainly made up by the follow-up to Snape's death, chapter 33.

My favourite chapter *huggles the 33* I think she had no choice. She just knew how we would take the death.

Maybe that´s because of the person he was based on? She looks at Severus from perhaps too short a distance to see what she has really made of him?

You can hardly get lower I think even Neville would have been righter, even though he was clumsy and not so smart at the beginning.

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Buuuuuut Lily started going out with James in their 7th year, and of what I reckon, she stopped being friends with Sev some time in their 5th year? After the mudblood incident...

I was thinking maybe Snape asked her to a ball in the scene before that, and was at least afraid she would go with Potter instead when she refused to go with him. Maybe she even did, because Severus ordered her not to, but they didn´t start dating him yet, because James did something stupid again?

Oh yays, a place for discussion!

And what was that person doing as a teacher?

Anyway, regarding Snape's teaching methods. Few would deem him Mr Popularity as far as Hogwarts teachers go, and it's true that he left much to be desired in some departments [and I'm referring strictly to teacher-student interaction, encouragement & all that, not his skills, which no one can deny], but I actually think that in some respects he may have done some of those kids a favour. I've had my share of hmm 'nasty' teachers, and more than often, their antics ambitioned me to prove myself even more in that subject. And it did work. It's not the most orthodox method, but in some ways it gives results.

On that very point, I'm of the opinion that Snape gave Harry valuable 'life' lessons that often subtly came out as mean comments. But Harry was never able to be objective, his feelings always came first, to the detriment of his reason. Or at least most of the time.

I guess we will never know for sure :/ I wonder if he did sense him outside..

But I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have wanted to go before confronting Harry and telling him the stuff of his memories himself. I think it was so moving the way he kept repeating, almost pleading for Voldemort to let him get to the boy.

And to those who keep saying Snape loathed Harry, and his last actions don't weigh enough to counter all those years of torture, I think they're forgetting that what matters the most is the end result. Of pretty much anything. And Harry turned out alive and well, and safe. And acknowledging Snape in the end, like JK said he did, was the least he could do =)

Hmm yes. I guess he compared them because they both shared that need for a sense of belonging to something greater, the desire to be acknowledged, respected perhaps. Not that that ever happened in Wormtail's case...

However, yes, a difference from Earth to ground between Wormy and Snape. One is a coward, the other the complete opposite.


Could be. I really wish she'd have given us more info, the Marauder Era always seemed more fascinating than Harry's time, dunno why. However, I was under the impression the 'I'm sorry scene' occured right after the Snape's worst memory bit?

It does make sense in a way. Just not the one we'd wanted for him. Slytherin to the end, I guess, like you said.

Meh. James really was mean. And I'm not talking about the jinxing, hexing and all the stuff he went through with the Marauders, JK said James had always suspected Severus had deeper feelings for Lily, and that was part of the reason why he treated him like he did. Idk, it sounds almost as if he started going after Lily only because he noticed the relationship between Sev and her.

There was this comment somewhere that it was James and the Sorting Hat that set Sev & Lily apart. Oh well, they worded it better than me, but yeah, lol. I agreed with the comment.

... And I talk too much.

I´ll start with four first posts, I cannot concentrate on more right now, then continue with next ones some day, I hope ...

I wrote this myself, and of course I haven´t done it myself ...

It was the only chapter I re-read before I lent The Book to my brother.

He was working for himself, kind of. I mean he loved Lily and that love was the reason he started working for Dumbledore. I would´ve mourned even though he would´ve been loyal to Voldy all the way, though.

I´ve been hating James since OotP and I think I might have started to dislike him as early as reading PoA.
There really was surprizingly little of Severus ... I mean hadn´t there been the Prince´s Tale chapter, I would´ve gone to the book store and claimed my money back


BTW, guys, we also have a special Mourning Thread here. If you haven´t mourned yet there ...

There was definitely not enough of Severus in Deathly Hallows, and the parts with him in it felt like someone took a knife and kept stabbing it into my heart over and over. Yes, The Prince's Tale was beautiful, and I had just gotten finished crying over his death and then that chapter got it started all over again! And by the way, I now officially hate James Potter with every fiber of my being! (not that i really liked him much in the first place...arrogant jerk)

I don't know. While reading I had the impression that his absence made him even more present in a way.
That whole unhappy story concentrated in one chapter considers Snape's character.
He was an Occlumens. So, everything we know about him was shown in blurred memory pieces.

But yeah, I agree. She could have said more about him. But then, it's JKR's story. ^...^

Occlumency, btw. Do you think Lily knew she was the reason of the rivalry?

I never believed, Snape was evil until after Dumbledore's death, when the whole Order thought, he was. But then I found some very sensible Snape-is-not-bad-theorizing on the internet and thought it might have been part of Dumbledores plan and JKR might still give us an explanation.
But when at the beginning of DH it turns out, he is the one who told Voldemort the right date, when Harry would leave the Dursleys I saw no way how he could not be in league with the DEs. We don't see much of him during the book until he tuns up from behind a suit of armour in 'The Sacking of Severus Snape'. In that chapter JKR presents him as that Snape caricature: greasy, bat-like etc.. I was mad at her. Snape to me had always been proof that in the HP world things are not black or white, but more complicated. And he had been an interesting, intricate caracter. He deserved a better exit than leaving a Snape-shaped hole! And was JKR telling us, that the explanation, I had thought would be too simple in the first book, that Snape, who looks like a bad guy is a bad guy, is right after all? Then came his talk to Voldemort and he was not that caricature any more. As I had already glimpsed there would be a chapter called ‘The Prince’s Tale‘ I started to hope again there might still be more to him. And then he died. LV murdered his right-hand man for a wand. I was shocked at how he died, had tears in my eyes because of the moving scene and somehow did not think any more he could be bad (at least I think that’s how I felt – It‘s been a while since I have read it)
I don’t think, he only fought on DD’s side, because he thought, he owed it to Lily. The fact that it was his fault, the love of his life was dead brought him to his senses. He must have regretted that he ever joined the DEs, that he had been lured by the Dark Arts. This is made clear, when DD asks “Is this remorse, Severus?“
And to be shocked at DD’s plan that a boy for whom he (DD) has done so much and who has been through so much has to be killed, is quite natural and not only due to the fact that Harry is Lily’s son.

Speaking of remorse: Did you catch the parallel between the Slytherin house-ghost, who killed the love of his life, kills himself and as a ghost rattles his chains out of remorse, and the Slytherin Head-of-House, who is responsible for the death of the love of his life, whishes he was dead, when he realizes, what happened and devotes the rest of his life to covering up for his mistake, also out of remorse?

The most moving moment of the entire book was: “Albus Severus“



Alright, this took a while to write, and is probably confusing and written in strange English (which is not my mother tongue)

^ Actually it makes a lot of sense, and I agree with almost everything you said. Very sensible POV

And as a matter of fact, I hadn't thought of that parallel before. Nice, new perspective. After Lily died, it was close to what Snape was either way, a ghost of his former self, driven onwards merely by regret and the memory of his loved one mirrored in her son.

IMO, the most moving moment was the 'Look..at..me' bit. Then again, the most moving ones in DH had more or less to do with Snape, either way

I agree, it was one of the most moving moments.

And if we looked carefully, we also saw Lily was a bit sorry about being sorted into Gryffindor, because it made Severus sad. He must´ve looked like this: when Lily started going out with James and finally married him.
It´s good that you even partly forgave your friend. Forgiving is sometimes so hard.

We all miss Severus here, and we will listen

*sobs with you*
It just felt so unfair, but I guess Voldemort had no other choice. Despite the prophecy he would´ve been the dead one after his and Snape´s duelling. Maybe Severus thought a snake bite would be a decent way to go, yes.

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Certainly he was someone who could have helped Harry (like Sirius and Dumbledore) and that's why he had to die. The book is called "Harry Potter" after all, and everything and everyone who could have stopped Harry becoming a "whole", grown-up person, had to be removed.

Why this gave me the impression that Rowling is some kind of Dobby? Everything for Harry Potter

Bullying us? As I said he was very old, probably hired in the times before softer means of education spreaded all over.
They were similar in many ways, Severus and Harry, but Snape was a little bit better at hiding his feelings.

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I guess we will never know for sure :/ I wonder if he did sense him outside..

And maybe he wanted to teach him s few tricks aswell? One last chance? Not much time, though. Or he wanted to give the memories to him for researching and then go back to Voldemort of assure the stupid boy doesn´t make any more mistakes, since he was so much like his godfather, too But yeah, I agree, he might´ve wanted to apologize Lily´s son for treating him so badly because he was James´s son.

... and one was skillfull and smart, the other one complete opposite. One can ask which one would really have deserved some respect.



You know, Chris, it´s called curiosity. We don´t know much about those days, of course we would like to lean more

Yes it did. But before Worst Memory was the scene that began with Severus saying to Lily: I thought we were friends, best friends. Thus he might´ve called her mudblood since she had refused to be his escort?

How to Beat Your Enemy, advanced version, vol 9 etc. : Marry the lady he´s deeply in love with. Disgusting, really. But I can believe that when it comes to James

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There was this comment somewhere that it was James and the Sorting Hat that set Sev & Lily apart. Oh well, they worded it better than me, but yeah, lol. I agreed with the comment.

James couldn´t have done it, if the Sorting Hat hadn´t started

No you don´t! It´s good someone else does, too

Actually, I would like Jo to write a book about that last year from Snape´s angle. And about James Potter there are many things that could be said, but I think you put it beautifully

I will comment LunaticLady along with Taxus´s and Chris´s last ones later, since this post already is shamefully long

I really ought to stop commenting everything in this thread, but I guess that´s what I think a go-go president is supposed to do Now I´m at least updated ...

I cannot say I wasn´t disappointed. But that one chapter really was ... love? I loved it, even though I cried.

No it isn´t! We have taken it over
I read HBP so slowly and with thought I was positive Snape killed Dumbledore on DD´s order and even unwillingly. I would´ve been surprised if it wasn´t so.
He was a double agent, right? He had to give them some "important" information not to lose his position in the middle of the action.

And I have to admit I waited much more Snape since the book began with him. Maybe Taxus is right; he kind of slithered into our subconciousness then and dwelled there throughout the book even when he wasn´t even mentioned, thus his absence made him more present.
That surprised me, too. I thought: "What does she think she is doing? Making parody?" However, I didn´t think he left his possession, I think he just had some ... errands.
That´s why I love Snape so much; he is the most realistic charrie Rowling created. She is the master of bluffing and she had been trying to mislead us in interviews, but what surprised me most was that she didn´t change her mind about Snape even after the book was released. But then Chris told me she had based Snape on a nasty teacher she had had at school, so maybe that´s understandable.
At this point I might have had slightest doubts, if I ever had any ... I was so sure Snape had been in love with Lily, though, that I couldn´t believe he would serve her murderer with pleasure. It was Rowling I didn´t trust at this point. I hadn´t peeped the following chapters names, so when she finally "deceived" me at the end of Chapter 32, I was angry at Rowling, how could she let him be finished like that? Hadn´t Prince´s Tale been the next chapter, I don´t know what I would´ve done. Burned the book? Written to the publisher? Sent a howler to Jo?
I have always felt he wanted his revenge. That he hated Voldemort for killing the only woman he had ever loved. But I suppose you´re right, he must´ve regretted, if not for anything alse then at least for losing Lily first to James and then to the death

He maybe had always thought of Dumbledore as a gentle grandpa´, intelligent maybe, but caring and protective. He realised he didn´t know Dumbledore as well as he had thought he did, and perhaps began to feel he had used both him and Harry as pawns. Perhaps he even started to suspect Dumbledore were no better than the Dark Lord himself.
Interesting point of view. And Severus was "swooping around like an overgrown bat", his robes being his chains. I like that idea.

To me it was the "new spring on Snape´s steps", but that was touching, too. It sort of showed all the misunderstandings between Harry and Severus were swept away.
You didn´t confuse me any more than some who are native speakers Also I speak a completely different language in the Real Life, so don´t worry, we are many. Sometimes people tend to make more mistakes on their mother tongue that in foreign languages. I make mistakes in any language

I didn´t understand the moving part at first being so angry at Jo. There might´ve even been tears of anger in my eyes. But yes, I guess I realised the scene was moving when I reread it after finishing the book.

Well, throughout the entirety of DH, I was on the verge of nervous break-downs time and time again. I had a fair few too. No doubt about that.

On the subject of Snape-- I got my book at Borders and they had the 'Great Snape Debate' and I was voting for the 'Snape is a friend' side. I even got my own time to say in the matter.

I'd also spoken to one of the regulars at my old job and she told me something about the first paragraph having been viewed on this biography film about the time when JK was writing the book and it had Snape and Voldemort having a discussion.

When the first scene in the book happened I was like-- No. It's not true. He can't be bad.

And the book kept going, but I just didn't think it could be true. It was hard to read the book because of all the bad stuff that was going on and just how many characters that I know and love died. And I of course, I had a hunch Snape would die. Makes me sad.

I think that even though we didn't see as much of Snape as we could have, people realised that Snape was one of the most important characters. Without him, there wouldn't actually be a book.

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Did you really think he had turned his back on Order and was being the Dark Lord´s loyal servant to the end? Did you never lose faith and just knew he was Dumbledore's man all this time?

No, I didn't believe it. I was so happy when the proof was right there. I actually whooped through the pain and tears.

I had faith in him because really, why would he have alerted the Order in OotP when Harry and the others went off to the Ministry? What about his reaction in GoF to when Voldemort came back? When he faced Fudge and showed him the mark?

What about his hesitation to agree to the Unbreakable Vow?

I had faith in him. And I'm glad that I did.

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What about The Prince's Tale?

It was sooooo sad. Oh, god. Every time I think about that stuff it just makes me miserable. He must have been sooo sad. His whole entire life he was just.... living it in regret, trying to make ammends for what happened. And how painful a reminder-- those eyes staring at him everyday, poorly concealed hatred just bellow the surface of the eyes that he held so dear, upon the son of the one woman he loved, the son of the man he hated..

It's just too sad. I can't stand to think about it without tearing up. It's going to take a long time before I can face reading DH again.

(attempt to restart the discussion)

__what do you think: what kept him alive, remorse or the longing for something out of reach?

__did he write a last will and who's mentioned in there?

__has he looked for a potion to get rid of Legilimency?

__what do you think: what kept him alive, remorse or the longing for something out of reach?

I think it could be a little bit of both. In a way, I guess he was always longing for something that he could never have, but he kept on trying for it anyway. After Lily died, I'm not even sure if he still knew what that thing was that he was reaching for. But, of course, there was Harry, and through him he was finally able to gain some measure of relief from his remorse at the end. (Though there was, sadly, so little time.)

__did he write a last will and who's mentioned in there?

I don't think he did. If he did, I have a funny feeling that Harry would be mentioned there. Why? Well, for obvious reasons, because he was Snape's only connection to Lily.

__has he looked for a potion to get rid of Legilimency?

Knowing Snape, he probably has. He's probably delved into every sort of potion there is, including this one.