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| | Spinner's End (SSFC) The place to discuss our favorite Potions Master. | Have a very Harry day!!
09-20-2006, 05:55 AM
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#1 (permalink)
| SSFC President Devoted to Tom Padfoot's Psychiatrist Hippogriff
Location: In Draco's dreams...or Lex's! Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,593
Hogwarts RPG Name: Fancy Taylor Fourth | SSFC Discussion Topic #2: Harry and Snape's Relationship This was suggested by Cat (AKA stepsmad4eva1984). I'll quote what she put in the discussion sign-up. Quote: |
Originally Posted by Cat aka stepsmad4eva1984 Oh lovely! Can I ask to have a discussion on the following subject:
Snape and Harry's tense relationship.
We all know what Snape and Harry have never gotten on so lets talk about why! Also do you think anything will ever be resolved between them? Do you think Snape is fair on Harry, (Example; in Potions lessons). | Let the discussion begin!
Last edited by DracosDuchess : 09-20-2006 at 05:58 AM.
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09-20-2006, 06:21 PM
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#2 (permalink)
|  JPFC Activities Officer Looking for a Fight Faerie
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Hogwarts RPG Name: Adz Sixth | I think that considering what we know of the past (and speculations alike) and that Harry looks almost identical to James, you can't blame our poor Snape for being so mean to Harry...I reckon it justifies what he does, at least in Snapes mind... we've got to remember how mean the Marauders were to him... |
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09-21-2006, 03:07 AM
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#3 (permalink)
| GWFC/BWFC Pie thrower Queen of Cookieland Fairer than Fairies Dementor
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Hogwarts RPG Name: Whigalima (Lima) Whiggmeister Fifth Year | ^Yeah, you can't blame him for that, especially if you also believe in the Snape loved Lily theory; not sure if I do though:/. I think that Snape is still good though, and might be helpful to Harry in his own bitter nasty way; he might even protect him from Voldemort if the time comes, maybe dying doing so(though I obviously don't want him to die). I know it seems a bit far-fetched, but the whole scene where Snape is fleeing from the school after killing Dumbledore and Harry is chasing him made me think. It seemed that Snape's telling Harry that he would be blocked again and again till he learned how to close his mind seemed almost like a lesson to me more than anything. Maybe it's just me wanting Snape to be good and to help Harry vanquish Voldemort, but that is what I think. |
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09-21-2006, 03:26 AM
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#4 (permalink)
| SSFC President Devoted to Tom Padfoot's Psychiatrist Hippogriff
Location: In Draco's dreams...or Lex's! Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,593
Hogwarts RPG Name: Fancy Taylor Fourth | I definitely agree. Childhood cruelty sticks with you for quite awhile. I think the blame lies with all of them. The Marauders were just cruel, but Snape did ask for it sometimes, just by putting himself around them all the time. He egged them on. And I agree that because Harry looks so much like James, Snape just can't see that he is a different person, sort of like Sirius, only the opposite. LOL. I definitely don't think that Snape is fair on Harry, but again, he thinks that this is a ways to get back at the Marauders, especially James. But he does seem to have hatred for the rest of the Gryffindor house, so it's not just Harry. As for things getting resolved between them, I don't think they'll ever be best friends. Frankly, I still think that they'll end up hating each other in the end. But they'll probably still end up respecting each other because of what they're both going to have to endure in preparation for the final battle. Harry will find out that Snape is on the good side, and Harry will prove himself to be a better wizard than Snape expected. But, they'll never be able to let go of the past. |
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09-21-2006, 04:49 PM
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#5 (permalink)
|  SSFC "Go-Go" President Sev's little bat Snidget
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Hogwarts RPG Name: Charmelia Snape aka Zaza Fourth | If we believe in that Snape loved Lily-theory - and why not believe in it - I think it must be a sheer torture to him to see Lilyīs eyes looking at him from Jamesīs face. Quote: |
the whole scene where Snape is fleeing from the school after killing Dumbledore and Harry is chasing him made me think. It seemed that Snape's telling Harry that he would be blocked again and again till he learned how to close his mind seemed almost like a lesson to me more than anything.
| There was this reluctant teacher/student pair. I believe Snape still tried to teach Harry something because of his promise to Dumbledore, if for nothing else. If not for those eyes ...
Snape could have teached Harry loads more, if there wasnīt that ancient hatred, which is probably originated from the Marauders. He looked at Harry and he saw James(+Lily), his face showed disgust because of that. How could Harry have liked a teacher who loathes him.
Hatred breeds hatred, Harry begun to loathe Severus as well. It is hard to learn anything from someone you hate, so Harry didnīt learn well when he knew it was Snape teaching.
Judging by the fact how much he learned from the Prince when he didnīt know who it was, there was nothing wrong with the teaching. I bet Harry would have been far better in potions if they would have had even neutral relations. The way they were, he didnīt learn even the most important thing, occlumency, properly.
He has it somewhere there, and hopefully after that one last lesson Harry is finally able to use it. Iīm not sure whether he can calm down enough to use it on Snape, though, but ...
Also Siriusīs example affected Harryīs opinions. When he saw a grown man he loved like a father to almost duel with a teacher he hated, that must have only strengthened his negative feelings towards Snape.
They have a lot in common, though. I donīt think they can ever be friends, but they know that much about each otherīs childhood, that I think some day they might at least respect each other the way Lupin and Severus do. |
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09-21-2006, 07:23 PM
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#6 (permalink)
| ECFC Rocks! Kneazle
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Hogwarts RPG Name: Sarah Adair First | I don't think that Snape and Harry can ever be friends or even really friendly. Harry could be upset because Snape hated him from the begining. I know that I would hate someone who hated me before I knew who they were. Also -don't kill me- if snape does turn out to be evil, who is the reason that Voldemort is dead? Who? Harry (and Lily but let me make my point). So that could be another reason why things are tense. On Snapes behalf, I agree that Snape could be treating Harry so badly as a reaction to how badly he was bullied as a child. Those kinds of things still rankle him. Just some thoughts on the no-go between Snape and Harry. |
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09-24-2006, 02:41 AM
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#7 (permalink)
| SSFC President Devoted to Tom Padfoot's Psychiatrist Hippogriff
Location: In Draco's dreams...or Lex's! Join Date: Nov 2005
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Hogwarts RPG Name: Fancy Taylor Fourth | I agree with Drusilla, Harry's eyes must be sheer torture for Snape if he loved Lily the way most of us think he did. And to see that mixed with the rest of James' features must be sheer torture. To see someone resemble the one you love and the one you hate must cause havoc on Snape's emotions. And for some reason, I think I remember JKR saying once that Harry having Lily's eyes was going to be important later. Only fuels our discussion...lol.
Harry didn't know anything about Snape to begin with. He suspected him to be evil, but once Snape began to treat him badly, he began to hate him on his own. And you're right, Drusilla, after seeing Sirius, someone Harry admires and looks up to and loves, fight with him, it justifies Harry's hatred. |
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10-04-2006, 02:50 PM
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#8 (permalink)
| | Chizpurfle
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 737
Sixth | Snape loves Harry as he loved Lilly. He knows Harry is the chosen one who will enact revenge on LV for killing Lilly. Consider the nature of the detentions, they were all designed to educate Harry. The glimpse into the Pensieve had the same design. The chase scene in HBP could have been ended quickly with a Stupify, but was not. Harry was no match for Snape, so how could he tackle LV? Harry learned a lot from that scene. He learned to use his mind as opposed to reacting through emotion. All these teachings will aid Harry in the final battle and Snape knows this. |
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10-10-2006, 01:37 AM
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#9 (permalink)
| SS's Minister of Magic Founding GravediggerTriwizard Champion Niffler
Location: The Arctic Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,820
| I'm not a fan of the Snape-loves-Lily theory as I really don't think he had any feelings for her. I've said it before (I think in the first discussion topic, maybe?) that you wouldn't call someone you liked a racial slur, which is what mudblood is in the wizarding world. That goes beyond hair-pulling and eye-poking.
Harry is Snape's scapegoat. Because James isn't around to rub in his success at becoming a teacher, thus having power over people, he must do it in the next best way, by attacking James's son. It's a despicable revenge because it's only revenge by proxy but in Snape's eyes, he's getting even. I do, however, think that his animosty is so strong because of his strong resemblence to James. Snape is seeing James enter Hogwarts for a second time and this time round, Snape has the upper hand and he's going to utilize that. He's going to preemptively strike in order to keep that upper hand. Harry could sense that this man hated him even before they said two words to each other. Not a great foot to start out on but Harry tried not to let Snape get to him as best as he can manage. I think Snape also attacks Harry out of fear as well. He's afraid that Harry is going to be just like his father that he's trying to quash it out of him but he's also moulding Harry to do just that. Just as Voldemort made the prophecy come true, Snape is making Harry out to be just like James in his own eyes. Severus is still stuck in grade school and can't move beyond his childhood hatred. |
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10-13-2006, 06:46 PM
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#10 (permalink)
| K.O. of Mr Tennant's specs Banshee
Location: scotland, the counry Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 16,006
| i think in a way Harry like his father before him is everything that Severus wanted to be. i mean all teenagers want to fit it and severus dosnt really fit in i think that comes from his past.
That said the releationship with Severus and Harry was never going to be like Harry and Lupin because they hated each other from the first glance! and it is goingg to be worse after HBP |
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10-17-2006, 03:12 AM
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#11 (permalink)
| SSFC President Devoted to Tom Padfoot's Psychiatrist Hippogriff
Location: In Draco's dreams...or Lex's! Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,593
Hogwarts RPG Name: Fancy Taylor Fourth | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Sissa Just as Voldemort made the prophecy come true, Snape is making Harry out to be just like James in his own eyes. Severus is still stuck in grade school and can't move beyond his childhood hatred. | Such an excellent opportunity to use what I've learned in psychology! LOL. It's the confirmation bias. We tend to believe things that confirm our perceptions and beliefs. If Snape believed that Harry was just like his father, he would seek out information that confirmed this and ignore or rationalize information that went against those beliefs.
As for the relationship between Harry and Snape getting worse, there's no doubt about that. But I believe that once Harry realizes Snape is working for his side, that they might learn to be civil to each other. That is to say, if they're given the chance before one of them dies. |
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05-06-2007, 11:24 PM
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#12 (permalink)
| Home of the Aussie Troll
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Hogwarts RPG Name: Alicia Cranberry | Snape loathed James, Harry was James son. James abused and tortured Snape and he hated him so much, you can only imagine. Harry looks like James, so poor Snape has to look at that face, and see James. It's his chance to pay back. Like father, like son. |
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06-22-2007, 05:02 PM
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#13 (permalink)
| Formerly: Linda Black  Crypt Keeper SSFC FF Officer AR/DM Events Phoenix
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Hogwarts RPG Name: Antonio Dumont Graduated Ministry RPG Name:
Samantha Rose Magical Education | Snape does hate James, it's true, but he also loved Lily (at least I believe he did, that she was the woman of his life). Don't forget that Harry has Lily's eyes and there's a part of her inside him. I think Snape is primarily ruled by hate when he looks at Harry, but that there's also a soft part there that keeps him from doing anything really extreme to him. Just a thought. |
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06-24-2007, 11:22 AM
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#14 (permalink)
| German Language Mod SS & ARFC Co-President Ashwinder
Location: Spinner's End Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,586
| Quote: |
I'm not a fan of the Snape-loves-Lily theory as I really don't think he had any feelings for her. I've said it before (I think in the first discussion topic, maybe?) that you wouldn't call someone you liked a racial slur, which is what mudblood is in the wizarding world. That goes beyond hair-pulling and eye-poking.
| THANK YOU!
But I also agree with Dru when it comes to teaching. Snape's a smart guy and talented wizard (who could do with some lessons in pedagogics). Harry could really use him as an information pool. But for that to happen, both would have to swallow a lot of pride.
Second, Snape is the only person, next to the Dursleys and maybe Umbridge, who set Harry boundaries and won't just let him be the super-hero-who-can-do-whatever-he-wants-without-the-consequences. So, it's only natural that Harry doesn't particularily like him, even withtout the James-Snape-storyline. I think it was Book 3 when it first started to really bug me, that Dumbeldore & Co just let him be. Yes, he's got a tough life and a lot on his hands, but if you get everything you want and hardly ever see the conseqeunces of your actions, it inflates your head...and that's not exactly a helpfull character trait, is it? |
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