One would not normally see a stag accompanied by a dog. This pair, however, was unique in it's own way. And it most certainly was not the sharpness of their claws or prongs that brought them together.

What was it then? How did they meet?

What did they like about each other?

What did they hate?

How did they get so close to each other, and not to the other marauders?

How much did James trust Sirius to invite him into his home...yet not to make him his Secrets Keeper...

How did Sirius feel when James got a love interest?

And finally, what do you think about them two being so close, and yet so famous?

Were they never envious or mad on each other?

How do you think their relationship would have evolved if James wouldn't have passed away?

As YOU know the both, I am curious to find out your opinion on all this and much more

Nice topic. Bet there'll be lots of nice replies. ^^

Just wanted to make my voice heard on this issue:

Truthfully, James did trust Sirius enough to make him his Secret Keeper. In fact, the book says that Sir was his first choice, quite obviously. =p

It was Sirius who refused, and who suggested he name Peter instead, since he presumed that Voldemort would come after himself first, seeing Black as the natural choice as James' Secret Keeper. Trusting he'd fool Voldemort, he asked James to place Peter in his stead, as he imagined that few would think of Pettigrew as even liable to be a Secret Keeper. Unfortunately, there was more to Peter than met the eye, and Sirius' option made him forever regret it afterwards, even though his line of thinking on the issue was admirable.

Yes, that was why he kept blaming himself for James and Lily's death, feeling that it was indirectly his fault that they died. Harry forgave him, though, and even though I don't think Sirius ever forgave himself, I don't suppose anyone still doubts that it was Voldemort and especially Peter's doing that ended so prematurely the Potters' life.

After all, we all make mistakes, in doing things that we think are best for those we love. The tragedy in this case was that what started out as a well-intentioned deed on Sirius' behalf, ended up in his best friend and his wife's demise.

Then again, we should also ponder whether we could classify what Sirius did as a 'mistake'... are deeds we do for the best of someone's future considered mistakes? Sirius' plan failed, and his judgement of Peter turned out wrong, just like everyone else's, in the end. There's a difference between being mistaken and committing a mistake. I reckon Sirius' case quite shows this.

Well, if this was Sirius' mistake, everyone made the same mistake, because everyone thought Peter was innocent and Sirius was the actual one to blame...

And what's more, I don't know if it's exactly trust that Sirius placed in Peter.. more like the belief that he was the weakest - therefore the least able to betray James and Lily [that's why he didn't suggest Lupin as Secret Keeper] and also the knowledge that out of the 3 of them [Sirius, Lupin, Peter], he would have been the least likely candidate to be considered James' choice for Secret Keeper by Voldemort.

Well, I can see Blackened is trying to get Sirius out of this as clean as she can .

Indeed, Sirius was well-intended, yet h ell is said to be paved with good intentions. Kidding. No one forced James to choose Peter in the end. I'm sure Sirius didn't threaten to kill Harry if James wouldn't pick Peter. These two marauders trusted too much...And they thought all marauders were the same as them.

Do you think that if Lily and Harry would have died and James would have survived Voldemort, Prongs would have blamed Sirius for it? I doubt it... he would have blamed himself...and went after Peter, just like Sirius did for him...

yes i agree, he loved Lily and Harry more than anything in the world and i'm pretty sure he'd even use avada Kedavra on Peter. I'm not treying to blame Sirius of course But unfortunately Sirius got the blame

As courageous as Sirius was, I never understood why he took himself out of being the Secret Keeper? I mean, as he said in the Shrieking Shack "I would have died rather than betray my friends," He did not betray his friends but to me he did not die trying to save their life either. I am sure that is something that while he was in Azkaban brought him down more than anyone can understand. I know that people make mistakes and that was one that he had to live with for the rest of his life. He thought he was making the right choice but in the end, it bit him on the...shirtless chest! *looks to Chris*

Now when did they meet? I believe them to have met maybe on the train like the rest said but I am thinking they first met after being sorted into Gryffindor at their first feast! I can see Sirius sulking at the Gryffindor table waiting for a howler from his mother for disgracing the family while James, with his hyperness, speaks to Sirius. Sirius then smarts back a few times to offend this stranger and James comes back at him with a few of his own....thus is when they both realize, they have a lot in common!

I don't think it's a matter of courage. It was an ideal way to outsmart Voldemort, as I was saying in my previous posts, a way which James also must have seen as suitable since he allowed Sirius to switch with Peter. He would have rather died than betray his friends, and he still did so [died]without betraying them. He did what he thought was best, since placing himself as Secret Keeper would have made him a more likely target for Voldemort, with Peter being less of an obvious choice.

His only 'mistake', I think, was believing that Peter Pettigrew would also 'die rather than betray his friends'. Not everyone has to be the same, though...

I absolutely agree. Peter turned out to be a nasty hypocrite.

Also, in answer to your question Ithilien, I will just say that James did trust Sirius enough to make him the Secret Keeper. It was Sirius who wanted to switch.

I also think that Sirius believed that switching the Secret keeper would hoodwink Voldemort. He knew that Voldemort would know he was the Secret Keeper and come after him. He also knew that there was the possibility that Voldemort might somehow torture him into giving up the secret. That is why he decided to switch the Secret keeper. That way, the chances of the secret being giving up would be at their very least.

But Peter. Arrgh – If I could only skin him alive.

Sirius had to live with the knowledge for the rest of his life and he was very bitter about it too, I guess. He believed that it was because of him that the Potters died and he constantly blamed himself for their death. My poor Sirius.

Maxie

It's not the same thing - when he died, he wasn't facing the choice between dying and betraying his friends. But he did jump into Harry's help. And If we accuse Sirius of having caused the Potter's death, than the same way we can accuse Harry of having caused Sirius'. So they're even

Moving on to the next questions, do you think there were things Sirius and James did not like about each other?

My point wasn't that there was a choice in the moment of Sirius' death, but that he did die WITHOUT betraying his friends. Plus, even if there had been a choice then, I am pretty certain nobody would doubt his loyalty.

As for the next question, the only things we could come up with are suppositions, since neither the books [nor JK] mention anything of any animosity there might have been between the two. Of course, we do not have James' testimony, since he is an absent character throughout the time of the HP books. And as for Sirius' part, all the things he mentions about his relationship with James are positive and demonstrative of affection and friendship.

You might say... but most of the things we discuss here are indeed suppositions!! That is partly correct, but the question is too personal for us to answer. From what we could understand of their relationship, it was an almost ideal friendship, strengthened the more by their liking of mischief and pranking. They may have had quarrels, may have gotten annoyed with one another at times; then again, that is a natural part of any relationship. My guess was that they were both easygoing and adaptable enough to get past these potential bickers, and learn to accept another with any flaws they could possess.

I got the point, don't worry.

As for James being an absent character, he does make an appearence in the 5th book, even if just in a memory.

I agree with what you stated about suppositions. That is why I asked what all of you "thought".
I too believe that anything that might have not worked between them was easily resolved. No one would have a best man and a godfather to his children that he didn't fully trust, admire, and consider a good example for his youngsters. And they were always into pranks together, which means they agreed about what to do to whom and when. And even when they did not have a plan (like it happened in the memory of Snape), they seemed to understand each other without words.

Do you think Sirius, for example, teased James because of his glasses? Or because of Lily? Do you suppose they pranked each other too?

I am sure that between the two of them and their personalities, I think they did pull pranks on one another but in a funny way. I know that there are plenty of friends out there who will do stuff like that to one another but they know it is to be funny and each can laugh at their own expense. I can picture one joking around with the other and them making a bet as to who can pull the most pranks.

As far as Sirius being jealous of James and Lily, nope, don't see that happening. Sirius was VERY popular with the women (*hint: look at me I am here for him ) and he was probably proud that James found the perfect girl for himself. Sirius to me was the type that could not choose one girl over another so he look the whole lot of them. He was happy to serve as many girls as he possibly could. hehehe!! Now if James and Lily did not include Sirius in anything and basically never talked to him again, then I think there would be a problem for sure! Not that Sirius would be jealous, he would have been hurt. But as we can see, this did not happen and both James and Lily made Sirius the Godfather of baby Harry!

I think that at first they were like two peas in a pod, but James grew up faster. He knew that sending Snape to the willow was wrong, and was willing to risk his life and future at school to save someone who he hated. Sirius never felt that way. I think after that incident it took a very long time for James and Sirius to be close again (I won't even talk about how Remus must have felt towards Sirius). I have no doubt that they were still best friends, and that James trusted Sirius with his and his families lives, but I think that from that moment on there was always that question in the back of James' mind, "Is able to handle this, or will he see it as a joke"

No proof of this, just my chocolate fueled ramblings.

How did Sirius feel when James got a love interest?

I think I've got an opinion on this one...here you go!

So...I think when James went with Lily...Sirius was, at first, a bit jealous, but then he got over it, cuz, you know. They were SUCH best friends that it didn't matter to Sirius, and that he was happy for Prongs.

Does that make any sense?

Chocolate makes best! I like the way you put it, and maybe James' change (as in his maturing) made Sirius mature a bit too. Or at least,be more serious!

What do you think about those two, being famous for their courage, popular for their looks, and generally, known by all, being able to be such good friends, maybe even perfect friends. It is hard to have real friends when you're famous (se Peter). Do you supose they got along so well, because they both knew what being famous meant?

OOC: and yes, that makes sense

What was it then? How did they meet?

They probabily met at school, they were both in Gryffindor, same year maybe same dormitor.

What did they like about each other?

I think they got along pretty well cuz they both liked a good joke, so they started getting in trouble together and laughing at each other jokes. They both dispised Dark arts and taht might have been the biggest thing they had in common.

What did they hate?

Well.. they hate Snape that's for sure.

How did they get so close to each other, and not to the other marauders?

They had more in common.
Lupin was the head didn't enjoy troubles that much and of course he had a furry little problem that kept him from showing who he really was. But he was still an extremelly talented wizard.
Peter was just the lump boy, always behind them three, always sniffing what they were doing and did nothing much at all!
James and Sirius had loads alike, they liked the same stuff, got into trouble together, got out of them together too, I suspect that James had Sirius as his unborn brother.

How much did James trust Sirius to invite him into his home...yet not to make him his Secrets Keeper...

Maybe he didn't want to put him in danger, he liked him too much to put him in such a risky situation.

How did Sirius feel when James got a love interest?

Like all friends do. A little jealous at the biggining but then he must have realised that there was no point, he just wanetd the best for his mate!


And finally, what do you think about them two being so close, and yet so famous?

Got famous by doing things together! By bein' the two handsomest boys in the school at the time and always hang around together, causin' disturs in the corridors!

Were they never envious or mad on each other?

Probabily, they must had fighted because of Lily a dozen of times, and btween the group too. Envious.. maybe, Sirius never dated what tels us that he wasnt envious of James dating Lily?

How do you think their relationship would have evolved if James wouldn't have passed away?

Oh, even bigger, really like brothers.
Sirius bein' Harry's godfather they were all live like a happy family.

What was it then? How did they meet? I would say that they probably met before school. If James was a pureblood then they could have met at some wizarding function or another that there parents took them to possibly a Quidditch match. Striking up a friendship that lasted through there lives.

What did they like about each other? James liked that Sirius didn't judge him when he pulled his pranks and that he helped to mellow him out in his older years. Sirius liked that James treated him as friend and later family even though he was a Black.

What did they hate? Sirius hated that James could be mean and vindictive sometimes it reminded him to much of his own brother. James hated that Sirius could get any girl that he wanted to go out with him and at first was secretly afraid that Lily liked Sirius instead of him.

How did they get so close to each other, and not to the other marauders? Once James and Sirius got to school and did not have to worry about Sirius getting in trouble for being James's friend they were allowed to become as close as brothers. They did not fully trust Wormtail but by the time they had become Animagus he knew to much about them to avoid him all together so they tolerated his presence in there life. Remus Lupin was the closest friend that either one would allow into their lives and once James and Lily were married he had reached the brother status that the other two shared.

How much did James trust Sirius to invite him into his home...yet not to make him his Secrets Keeper... I think that it was more a suggestion that Dumbledore had made and that James and Sirius discussed him being their secret keeper and they felt it would be dangerous because that would be what Voldemort expected. So they in turn made Wormtail the secret keeper not knowing that he would be the one to betray them all.

How did Sirius feel when James got a love interest? He was o.k. with it he really liked and grew to love Lily himself. Plus Sirius was so hot he had so many girlfriends he could have his pick.

And finally, what do you think about them two being so close, and yet so famous? The fame did not mean anything to James all he cared about was Lily and Harry and Sirius like being well known that was the family showing through but he had James and Lily and Remus to keep his head from getting to big.

Were they never envious or mad on each other? Like most friends they had there fights and Sirius envied James his wife and son but he knew that he would have a family of his own someday and was o.k. being the Godfather that spoiled Harry rotten.

How do you think their relationship would have evolved if James wouldn't have passed away? I think that they would have remained close I think that Sirius would have finally settled down and had children of his own and they would have birthdays and holidays to goof off with each other. Cookouts and broomstick rides for the kids things that a family would do together.