Introducing SBFC's series of discussion topics, we are proud to open up the floor with:


Debunking a myth:
The Veil


We can all agree that ever since OOTP, there has been one mystery etched on the minds of Sirius Black fans.
So what is that veil? Where does it lead to? What purpose may it serve? Hopefully, you can provide the answers and more.


Remember-all:

* Stay on topic.
* Be respectful.
* All SS rules apply.

I have to say that my picture of the veil was something that was never ending. Sirius would forever fall until eventually passing out. I also believed that as he was falling, pictures from his past were flying through his mind reminding him of why he was who he was and just to let him know and understand that he served his purpose well.

Then I read Lissy's story....

^ I would have to agree with Stacey there. That's what i pictured too, flashbacks of all the stuff he's done in his life; his regrets, his stellar moments. I really don't think there's a end to the veil, so maybe there is a way to Sirius could come back.

I also pictured other objects that have accidently been dropped into there or if it's something that the Ministry using to get rid of certain things. Because Lupin was so sure that Sirius was gone, and he didnt check behind the veil or anything. Anyone wonder if there are more people inside?

I believe the Veil is a connection between this world and the "spiritual" one. Anyone who enters it immediately goes into the - uhh - "next world." So one can say that it leads to the "next" world. Maybe the Unspeakables are trying to study the spiritual world.

Coming to Sirius - I do believe that he is dead but I also believe that he and Harry will see each other again. Maybe he will be a ghost, maybe just a shadow [Like James and Lily at the end of Goblet of Fire] - Mabe Harry will see him once more when he [finally] defeats Voldemort. Maybe the Two-Way Mirror will come in handy after all. But Harry will see Sirius again. That, however, does not stop Sirius from being dead. The veil, in my opinion, leads to the spiritual world and that is where Sirius has gone.

I also believe that Sirius, before reaching that world, will think of all that his life had been - How handsome, popular, magical he was - and how it ended. What a waste it turned into. All this will probably pass through his mind too.

Maxie

That's what I thought when I first read about the veil. I thought it would be an abyss where all his memories of his life would play around him and memories of events he got to miss. Then I started thinking and decided that it is not an abyss...just a portal to another part of the world or something to that affect.

Very good point. I always wondered why the veil was there, at the Department of Mysteries, in the first place. And it's a rather interesting approach, to say the least, that it is there so that the Unspeakables attempt to study the spiritual world, the aftermath of death and such.

But what about those voices that Harry and Luna could hear?

I like the thought of it leading to another place, another "world " and since seeing that side of it (through Lissy's eyes - love that story), I have wondered if JK will write something that would take us to him where he is now. I know that is a far fetch since she has said that Sirius is....I cannot say the word...."gone" but writing something on that topic would give her another series to write about and give us something to talk about .

The only reason I say this is because Sirius Black as a character is one of her most popular and cherished characters throughout the Harry Potter series. To me, I would create another series off of HP and write about Sirius Black. There are lots of people interested in this one particular character and well *giggles* I can see why.

EDIT:
Okay please don't laugh at me when I say this....I laugh at myself all the time thinking of this...

But I have wondered why the veil is there in the first place and how in the world do they study what is there? Do they hook someone up to a rope and send them down into the veil and say, "Well, it's all dark in here and I cannot see anything....let me down a little more"? I mean, how do you study such a thing that falling through it would eventually kill you? Or do they stand at the side and pitch things in it to see if something or someone will throw them back from the other side?

I agree with you there, Stacey.

I always thought that the veil would be something like a gateway to a different world or time. It doesn't necessarily lead to the Afterlife, but maybe something like another dimension. Another possibility for me is that people are forever stuck behind that veil, but there has to be a way to get them out of there. They are just trapped - like the voices Harry and Luna heard.

I agree with all but that there is a way out. I see the veil as a final ending where a person, or maybe and object passes through and never comes back. I don't know if it goes to a place like "heaven" or "hell" it might just be. Since JK introduced the veil i've wondered why they don't put people through the veil intstead of having their souls sucked, then they could get rid of the dementors.

Stacey: I like the rope bit. Original XD

A very intriguing perspective... the people there being trapped. Yes, it is definitely a possibility. My guess is that the people who are studying the veil are quite far from realizing the depths of its workings, but such a powerful object should not be left there, on its own. The veil seemed to exercise some sort of mysterious influence on those who entered that room - the Chamber of Death, wasn't it? - and if only Luna and Harry could hear the voices, it might as well can be that only those who have experienced death in some way, can hear the voices of those behind.

Indeed, the veil could be quite a weapon if used properly - or maybe it is simply too complex in its danger to be wielded by the Ministry representatives.

You mean that it works the same as with the Thestrals who can only be seen by certain people? Very interesting theory.
Mm, good point. I'd guess that the Ministry just doesn't know enough about the veil, and before they can send people through it they need to test it and they probably don't want to risk losing ministry employees.

I totally agree. The Ministry doesn't really realize what it does, but they are trying to delve into the depths of some really astounding mysteries.

I also believe the Veil does exercise some influence in everybody, because its connected with spirituality in some way, but it affects those most who have seen death. It is a complex, and very powerful device.

Quote:

Indeed, the veil could be quite a weapon if used properly - or maybe it is simply too complex in its danger to be wielded by the Ministry representatives.

Using the Veil as a Weapon is probably banned at the Ministry though.

Maxie

How can they discover the Veil's secrets? Do they have to send people through it or are there any spells to do this work for them?

But I'd say that the Ministry doesn't really know yet what the Veil does, because - like you said above - it's very complex and powerful.

i vote we send lucius or bell through as an expirament to see what happens.

I have to admit that once I read about the whole ‘veil’ thing, I never thought that Sirius was dead. Maybe it was because I didn’t want to believe so. I kept reading on and on waiting for him to come back, but he never did. *tear*

Anyway, it is apparent that J.K. is just building suspense. Why she didn’t tell us about it in HBP is what frustrates me the most. But then, maybe she wants to leave it to book seven. Torture, torture.

I think that maybe the veil was created to study death or what is truly after it. On another note, I think that it might be the only thing that can destroy Voldemort forever; as he is immortal. Adding to that, the Dementors, as Chris said.

Then I come to think about what is behind the veil. What is so strong that makes a person die there, or just suck him/her in? A portkey, maybe? To death?(okay, I am going insane )

Maybe the ones working in the DoM can send a ghost to see what is behind it. After all, ghosts are dead and they won’t just die again. However, that is still a mystery to the DoM because life and death is still a mystery to them, and that’s why they have the veil inside. If they had already discovered it, it wouldn’t be there.


I did think about that, too. But then, why didn’t Neville hear the voices too? He saw his grandfather die, and the book didn’t mention anything about Neville hearing voices. (that’s if I can remember correctly)

These are just some of my opinions; don't sue me if they're wrong because they probably are!

All opinions are good! There are no wrong or right answers here until maybe Jo decides to tell us what she thinks...

I have the rope image stuck in my head now, Stacey! All of a sudden, I picture you with a rope tied around your middle and a bunch of us lowering you into the veil. "Pull Sirius out will ya?" *you pull out a random guy* "No! Wrong one! Throw him back!"

Human experimentation on Bella, now there's a thought.


Anyway, I've always seen the veil as a portal between living and death of some kind. A tear in the fabric of the universe. I do believe that the Ministry is attempting to learn about what is on the 'other side'. How? (thinks of Stacey and her rope) I'm not really sure, but it must have something to do with the voices. The veil, I believe, is set up in a forum-like room as though for spectators. Perhaps at certain times, the voices are louder? Or certain people, as was suggested, can hear them? Perhaps at these certain times, the rift between living and dead is smaller and the voices can get through. Saying this, I wonder if there are times when actual spirits or persons can come back through... *ponders* The way it is set up brings to mind people sitting, watching, and waiting for something to happen. I can't get that feeling out of my mind. Of course ever since that scene in OoTP, I've wanted Sirius to come back. I swear when I first read it that I never heard any of what Jo said about him being truly gone and I thought right off that he would come back. *sigh* Of course if you want to analyze it, I would say that by passing through the veil and into the land of the dead, he truly is dead - to us. So that makes it a true statement. But since the veil is such a mystery - who is to say (or know) that a person who went in can't come back?

Lissy could ramble forever on this topic.

With respect to the idea that I used in my FanFic. (I love you guys for reading) I also can see the veil as a breach in a time/space continuum (Star Trek geek showing). What if it is like a wormhole or something? A portal with an opening in one place and a exit in another? I just thought that would be a interesting/fun theory. And add the aspect of time being affected, I could not resist seeing a way to allow Sirius to lose a few years. The poor guy missed out on so much of his youth. *sniff*

Anyway... yeah... I'm sure I will ramble again later. hehe

You all make me laugh so hard here! *wipes away tear* But back to the topic ...

I think the idea of that rift between living and dead is pretty good. Makes me wonder when the rift is the smallest. Maybe on special days of the year, like Halloween or on July 7 (you know with seven being the most powerful magical number). If this is true then it should be possible to pull someone back.

*grins* You read my mind. I was pondering the idea of the rift being smaller on days such as Halloween because it has been said that the spirit world is thrown open on this day and the spirits search out the living so that they could possess them. However, I didn't think of July 7. That's quite an interesting idea.

I do agree. When Harry first entered the room, it was written that he "felt a very strong inclination to climb up on the dais and walk through it". It makes me wonder what may have caused Harry to be mesmerized by the veil in such a way. I'm not so sure that he would have been able to break its spellbound hold if not for Hermione reminding him that they were there for Sirius.

I thought, at first, that the veil was cursed... having touched it, you're cursed... going through it, you're dead. A sacred veil in the Department of Mysteries. But then I read your guys's stories... yours would make more sense...

I remember clearly JK saying that Sirius is surely dead, but like most of you, I've been wondering about whether he might come back or not. Yet now I just reread a fragment from OOTP, and I am beginning to think that maybe there is no known way to return from wherever the veil may lead to.

And another bit I just noticed:

The triumphant scream clearly indicates knowledge that Sirius had indeed met his fate upon falling through. Which brings to my mind another question -- how many people do actually know about this veil? *cause by the looks of it, it isn't as big a mystery as one might think, considering its danger and potency.

Mm, very good point. I actually never noticed that. But I think that Bellatrix might have known because the Death Eaters had a spy in the DoM (I think it was Rookwood), so he might have been passing information on veil to them.

That's what I always thought. That after the veil it's some sort of huge hole where once you have passed it then you either keep falling forever.

I also thought as alternative that the space behind the veil is some sort of never ending plane. A space which is unplotable and the people inside it have no sence of where they are are that others are with them.

Then again I'm not sure what the use of the veil and/or the space behind it could be. It's beyond me. I will have to think about this one and come back to you all later!

The Veil isn't that much of a mystery to me.

after finally mourning endless weeks over the loss of Sirius *whipes tear* I got to think about the book, and I re-read it more carefully, speally the part of the Veil. Mainly, the rooms in the ministry are all about a specific thing. There's the room for the smart people *the brains im supposing* theres a love room *the one Voldy couldn't enter* and the room of the dead.

As Luna said, she heard her mother behind the Veil; leading up to saying the Veil holds all dead wizards and witches. Almost saying as if, its a gateway to heaven or wherever they go.

~I know it's not even a theory, but thats what I think~

That's interesting. Has anyone actually thought about the meaning and significance of them?

But back on track of the topic in question!

Quote:

Originally Posted by OOTP

'He can't come back, Harry,' said Lupin, his voice breaking as he struggled to contain Harry. 'He can't come back, because he's d—
'HE — IS — NOT — DEAD!' roared Harry. 'SIRIUS!'

Harry heard Bellatrix Lestrange's triumphant scream, but knew it meant nothing — Sirius had only just fallen through the archway, he would reappear from the other side any second . . .

That's interesting and slightly scary for me to accept. JK wouldn't tell us lies about important issues in the book. I think that if she has told us so plainly then it's most likely true. But it's still hard to accept. But then for us the Sirius fans it's more interesting to think about the veil. I find it facinating. It's just one of those magical things in the Wizarding world. Me myself would find it more interesting for their to be a story behind the veil.

I don't think you can come out of the veil. I think if you could Remus would know. I think Remus is highly educated maybe even by Dumbledore himself. This being the case if there was anything to be done Remus or Dumbledore would have done it. So yes its the end.

This is what I wrote in the book discussion.

I still believe this. I think is the end of who's ever life goes into the veil. I also think that this maybe where they put people when they die. I don't think that those who have studied it have ever sent anyone in or if they have they haven't come out.

I think that Harry will push Voldemort through the veil whether Harry will end up going through I hope not.

I love this topic and I love everything that everyone has said. I think you all have very valid points.