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| | Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone Harry's introduction to the Wizarding world. |
07-11-2005, 11:26 AM
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#1 (permalink)
| Japanese Language Mod
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,045
| Odd plot in the Philosopher's Stone
The philosopher's stone movie was on TV last night, and as I was watching it, it made me consider a number of things. This is true for the book as well as the movie, but knowing what we do now, why didn't the professors better guard the Philosopher's Stone from Voldemort? I mean in essence, they pu *** below the feet of a three-headed dog in a corridor that could be opened by a well-read first year magic student. After that, it was a series of obstacles easily enough overcome by first magic students.
I asked myself first, why teach a first year student the alohamora spell? Then I realized that most places would be easily enough guarded against it. I'm sure a simple spell can be cast on a lock to make the spell useless. Second, why not simply make the third floor corridor unplottable? We know the professors and headmaster can do it? That said, doesn't it strike anyone as strange that the Philosopher's stone was so poorly guarded, considering its significance, compared with other things throughout the books?
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08-25-2005, 04:43 PM
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#2 (permalink)
| Forums Manager
 Poltergeist
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Hogwarts RPG Name: Ana-Marie Aylesworth Fifth Year | Old Man Beans
first of all, they wernt taught alohamora, hermione read it in a book, but the others make my brain hurt, i think u have got a point
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08-25-2005, 05:03 PM
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#3 (permalink)
| | Doxy
Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: in Faylinn
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Hogwarts RPG Name: Shaylee Fourth |
i personally think it was dumbldore's way of testing Harry to see whoat he was like because of things
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08-27-2005, 07:29 AM
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#4 (permalink)
| | Dragon
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Halloween Town
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Hogwarts RPG Name: Victoria Alexandra Amherst Fifth Year Ministry RPG Name:
Kasandra Tonks Magical Creatures | Toothpick Disappearer * Likes her 'figgies' * Mmm... Bagels! Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly2007 i personally think it was dumbldore's way of testing Harry to see whoat he was like because of things That is something to bring in to consideration.
but yet again the professos might of though voldemort wouldn't come to hogwarts with dumbledor there. but yet he did. it could be a many of things and jk is the only one who knows the true answer to that. |
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11-15-2005, 05:26 AM
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#5 (permalink)
| DA PoetRupert is My Man!SS100 Triumphant Giant Squid
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: IHOP & You?
Posts: 18,406
Hogwarts RPG Name: Ottery St. Catchpole Third Year | *Ottery's on the run from the grownups* Quick Teddy hide me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Paris is ♥♥♥ Gone With the Wind Considering grown ups are dumb...and that everyone, starting with Hagrid, was so quick to believe that Hogwarts was the safest place in all the Wizarding World...it's not surprising that they didn't put more dangerous spells, and more traps to guard the stone. Or it could be that Dumbledore wanted to test Harry's mettle as some people implied or he's cracked, and well...cracked people do cracked things, yo!  I'd have to say...uhm, it was a combination of our society's failing education system plus our violent youth, who don't get enough love and attention at home...  Harry does come from a broken home... *glomps Harry* Maybe Snape's right and he is just lashing out hungry for attention... LOL |
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02-04-2006, 04:18 PM
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#6 (permalink)
| | Hippocampus
Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: England
Posts: 301
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Yeah but Dumbledore already knew that Harry would go after Tom Riddle if he ever went searching for the stone. When he returns from London he says "He's gone after him hasn't he?" So I don't think it really would have mattered because Dumbledore knew Riddle wouldn't be able to get the stone from the mirror and so that was good enough for him.
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03-08-2006, 09:46 PM
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#7 (permalink)
| | Demiguise
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: England
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Hogwarts RPG Name: Roland Mow Baims Fifth Year Ministry RPG Name:
Richard Miles Baims Accidents & Catastrophes |
well I doubt just any first year could get through the obstacles. The trio got through because their combination of skills were useful for the tasks. Draco, Crabbe and Gyle couldnt have done it even if they were nice guys. But then again would the professors try toooo hard to protect it, I mean they could have concentrated on stopping powerful spells and completely overlooked the possibilty of simple spells being used. But then again the obstacles were incredibly difficult to get past unless you know how. You wouldnt have a clue how to get past Fluffy without Hagrids advice. A troll isnt the simplest thing to get past.Spotting the right key in a crowd and then catching it. The devils snare killed that guy at st mungos so its very dangerous. The potions needed an incredible amount of logic which hermione says alot of powerful wizards dont have an ounce of. And Dumbledore's is extreemly difficult to figure out. So in fact the chambers are in fact very difficult to get past.
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03-14-2006, 06:42 PM
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#8 (permalink)
| Keeper of the G/H snog Crup
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Originally Posted by allucha first of all, they wernt taught alohamora, hermione read it in a book, but the others make my brain hurt, i think u have got a point I agree with you... There are some things that Rowling did which are not so convincing
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03-23-2006, 07:14 PM
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#9 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
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Hogwarts is supposed to be the safest place other than Gringotts. So maybe they didn't think twice about it since DD is there to protect everyone.
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04-11-2006, 01:34 PM
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#10 (permalink)
| DTFC News Banshee
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: scotland, the counry
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The stone was kept there not just to keep it from Voldemort but others who would use it for their gain!
THey are taught those spells because they are needed in life!
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05-19-2006, 01:41 AM
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#11 (permalink)
| | Imp
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: US
Posts: 121
Hogwarts RPG Name: Ryan |
i agree that the it seams that it should have been more guarded compared to the other books.
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06-13-2006, 05:03 PM
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#12 (permalink)
| | Basilisk
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Manhattan
Posts: 49,047
| Tennis Pirate I think that they should be allowed to use Alohamora. It's just a simple spell. Just because she used it (absent mindedly, mind you) to get to the Stone, doesn't mean it shouldn't be taught.
I think it is strange that the stone wasn't put in a safer location, like you mentioned, a unplottable place. It just makes more sense. But I trust that JK knew what she was doing. |
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06-16-2006, 12:19 PM
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#13 (permalink)
| | Flobberworm
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 15
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Originally Posted by hprwhg4ever I think that they should be allowed to use Alohamora. It's just a simple spell. Just because she used it (absent mindedly, mind you) to get to the Stone, doesn't mean it shouldn't be taught.
I think it is strange that the stone wasn't put in a safer location, like you mentioned, a unplottable place. It just makes more sense. But I trust that JK knew what she was doing.  hmm....i think you're right...
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06-27-2006, 12:32 PM
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#14 (permalink)
| JPFC's 100th Member Twins prank master Chimaera
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i think u have a good point but wasnt quirill tryin to protect it aswell so he knew wat was there ciz voldemort was him. hermonie is the one who got harry there with the knowledge n logic skills
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07-13-2006, 02:06 PM
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#15 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: under your bed..
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First |  it is really unusual; consider this why would mcgonnagall put in just a trnsfigured chessmen? nor professor sprout just the devil snare?
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07-21-2006, 03:35 AM
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#16 (permalink)
| Bellatrix LestrangeDraco's DirectorDramione=OTP Demiguise
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Serena Bullard | It could have been partly to test Harry, however, you are failing to think about the last task. The Mirror of Erised. It would only give the Stone to those who wish to find it, but not use it. Voldemort wanted to use it. He needed to. Therefore, he would have never gotten past the Mirror. |
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07-31-2006, 07:15 PM
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#17 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hull
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I do think that they got thru it so easy coz dumbledore wanted to test Harry, i think he sed somewhere in the book that he knew Harry would go after the stone if he knew that someone was gunna try and steal it!!
and i agree with everything u say!!
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08-07-2006, 12:11 AM
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#18 (permalink)
| DA News Officer Bicorn
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No No NO! You guys are doing this all wrong! Dumbledore wasn't trying to test Harry! The reason being, that it could look like getting the stone was easy work, until they came to the Mirror!!!!!!! Then, it would be impossible to get it! The only normal reason someone would want the Stone in the first place, would be to use it!!!!! So they wouldn't be able to get it. And the person stealing it wouldn't be able to get out even if they managed to get the Stone, mainly because of the Fire guarding the Mirror. The potion would be all used up, remember?!?!?!?!?!?!
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08-16-2006, 12:30 AM
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#19 (permalink)
| Wotcher, Harry! Slytherin Babe Crup
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I'm in agreement with the comment that Dumbledore was NOT trying to test Harry's capabilities - I think you're forgetting that this is Dumbledore you're talking about. He knows a person, their quirks, the way their mind works, and what they have the potential to do. There would be no reason for him to lessen the strength of the protection to the stone just to see if Harry could do it. No reason.
I think, while they don't seem severe, the Devil's Snare, the key challenge, and the chess game were extremely dangerous to someone who didn't have a clue what they were doing. But even so, I think these served mainly as deterents: they were supposed to put off whoever was looking for the stone, to send them back the way they came from because they were so harsh. Voldemort knew he wanted the stone but, not knowing what task was going to be next, he didn't know whether advancing would be worth putting what was left of himself through so much danger and physical stress, especially while it is clear he COULD return without it. And like the others have said, the Mirror of Erised is obstacle enough - Voldemort would never, ever have been able to get the stone because he planned on using it.
Though, that brings me to a theory I had always pondered ... if the thing was that the mirror would reveal the stone to someone who wanted to have it but didn't want to use it, why couldn't one of Voldemort's followers get the stone for him? They certainly would want it (to give to him), but they would never use it on themselves, nor be the ones who would use it for Voldemort.
Last edited by laudienne; 08-16-2006 at 12:32 AM.
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08-22-2006, 04:03 PM
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#20 (permalink)
| DA News Officer Bicorn
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Hogwarts RPG Name: Sylvannas Quickspeed Sixth |
ok, because the stone would have to much power. The reason most wizards would become death eaters, is because voldemort would give them power, and that's what they wanted. so if they were sent to get the stone, they would want to use it for themselves.
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08-24-2006, 11:31 AM
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#21 (permalink)
|  Reader of Sirius’ journal Chizpurfle
Join Date: May 2005 Location: New Hall, The Univer
Posts: 739
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well I doubt just any first year could get through the obstacles. The trio got through because their combination of skills were useful for the tasks. Draco, Crabbe and Gyle couldnt have done it even if they were nice guys. But then again would the professors try toooo hard to protect it, I mean they could have concentrated on stopping powerful spells and completely overlooked the possibilty of simple spells being used. But then again the obstacles were incredibly difficult to get past unless you know how. You wouldnt have a clue how to get past Fluffy without Hagrids advice. A troll isnt the simplest thing to get past.Spotting the right key in a crowd and then catching it. The devils snare killed that guy at st mungos so its very dangerous. The potions needed an incredible amount of logic which hermione says alot of powerful wizards dont have an ounce of. And Dumbledore's is extreemly difficult to figure out. So in fact the chambers are in fact very difficult to get past.
Agree with you completely. The trio are a unique combination and only they could have got past all those obstacles. I also thought, after reading dark stuff like books 5 & 6, that the obstacles could have been a bit too easy, but, I mean, not many people could have won that chess game, or not drunk poison/wine or got burned by the flames leading to the last chamber, or caught the right key without sitting in that chamber for days and dying of starvation, or got past the troll, or got past Fluffy without knowledge of how to put him to sleep, or managed to identify/remember the properties of Devil's Snare while their friends were being strangled, or agreed to sacrifice themselves to allow their friends to go on... The respective characters and abilities of the trio allowed them to get to the stone where more powerful and learned witches and wizards would surely have failed. Quote:
Though, that brings me to a theory I had always pondered ... if the thing was that the mirror would reveal the stone to someone who wanted to have it but didn't want to use it, why couldn't one of Voldemort's followers get the stone for him? They certainly would want it (to give to him), but they would never use it on themselves, nor be the ones who would use it for Voldemort. Of course they would use it on themselves! Eternal life (so Voldemort could never kill them) and an endless supply of gold! Almost any Death Eater would surely want to keep the Stone for themselves. Besides, Voldemort HAD no followers at the time... he didn't even have a body and so could not summon the Death Eaters until GoF. And besides, even if a Death Eater didn't use the Stone on themselves, they would still need it to give it to Voldemort, so their intentions would not be pure. They would be indirectly using the Stone to increase their worth as his followers in Voldemort's eyes.
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11-08-2006, 05:23 PM
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#22 (permalink)
| | Gnome
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 84
Hogwarts RPG Name: unsorted |
i think it was all DD's plan. if u have noticed that all the things which the trio have to pass to reach the philospher's stone were the one on which each one of them was good .like harry was good at flying,hermoine at potion's and Ron at chess.So DD knew everything and he planned it .i dont know whether it ws to test harry or for something else
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11-18-2006, 03:25 PM
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#23 (permalink)
| | Grindylow
Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: newcastle in england woop woop
Posts: 907
Hogwarts RPG Name: unsorted | i dont think its odd, you lern a lot about the characters from this scene, its very nice andyou start to learn how well they can get along and possibilities of future happenings
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11-18-2006, 06:52 PM
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#24 (permalink)
| | Chizpurfle
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 717
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Looking back & re-reading the book. I don't think the task was something that only one person was meant to do.
Kind of like Voldie & his cave horcrx.
Only a group of people that were skilled and worked togeher would be able to get through all of the obstacles.
Remember what Hermoine said whne they were trying to figure out the potion part of the quest...
"Brillant, this isn't magic - it's logic - a puzzle. A lot of the greatest wizzards haven't an ounce of logic, they'd be stuck here forever."
Magic ability is important but so is logic. Voldie doesn't have much logic. He is blinded by his greed and power lust.
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11-20-2006, 02:26 PM
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#25 (permalink)
| | Chizpurfle
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 737
Sixth |
I think the tasks were specifically designed for the trio. Harry was good at flying, Hermoine at logic and Ron at chess. My question is how did Quirrel get through? Putting Fluffy to sleep should have been no problem, since he already knew how. The roots should have been no problem, and he may have been able to figure out the potion logic. He could have used Accio on the key, but how did he get past chess? Would LV, as a passenger, have trusted his logic? I think not.
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