Ok, this is my first thead *eek excitment*.

While reading I think Philosopher's Stone, Aunt Petunia seemed really jealous of her sister. I know I'm not the first person to notice this but I wanted to see what others think. She said how proud her parents were of Lily when she got her letter. There is definatly some jealousy and i wonder why. If Petunia is always talking about how much she hates magic and everything associated with it, something must have happened to change her opinion of magic from when she was younger. Any opinions?

Well Ally, I def. agree with you on that last part-I think that she did have some magical encounter in her younger years, but I don't think she was jealous of Lily. In Philosopher's Stone, Petunia's sudden outburst was basically the first time she had ever mentioned her sister. I think that something happened when Lily was at school, and essentially scared Petunia into hating everything that had to do with magic. I think she's talking out of hatred rather than out of jealousy (in PS).
Congrats on your first thread!!

Well, I think it's obvious that she's jealous of her sister.

I think that she's jealous because Lily's a witch and she's not--well, not because Lily's a witch, but because of all the attention she received for it.

Think about it: You're a child with a sibling. Suddenly, your sibling gets accepted to a wizarding school, and your parents are overjoyed! I'm sure anyone with a sibling can at least sympathize a little with Petunia's feelings, though she takes them a bit far, I think.

I think Petunia's current hate of everything magical stems from her being overshadowed by Lily's accomplishments.

It's also why she treats Harry so poorly. He's a constant reminder of everything her sister has accomplished...and everything she hasn't.

Exactly. Petunia had to watch her sister go off to a special school while she studied for her tests. I think Petunia took comfort in the fact that her sister was "abnormal" and she was "normal." Something she took so far as to have integrated it into her very personality as an adult.By the time Harry arrives, Petunia genuinely believed the justifications she told herself as a child.

Harry is also a constant contrast to her own son (whom she probably relates to). As such, as immature and juvenile as it is, I think Petunia is a reminder of how fragile human psyches are.

I agree with this one hundred percent. besides, most siblings, at some point in their lives are at least a tiny bit jealous of one another. Its that good ol' sibling rivalry thing going on. The sad thing about petunia and lily though, is that the childhood jealousy grew into resentment.

And i have a quick question that just occured to me: who is older, Lily or Petunia?

I dont think its important or anything, i just don't know and was curious.

i have a feeling its petunia. I don't know why but like i feel that when an older child gets all the attentsion for accomplishing its like ok ill have my turn one day. but since i think lily is yournger its like why is the baby getting all the attention. my life is meaningless type of buisness.

I think that is why she is so bitter and harsh towards Harry, is because she has a level of jealousy towards Lily that she will never get rid of. Especially since her parents were so proud of Lily & her talents that Petunia was always second best.

Yeah, perhaps she was jealous of Lily being accepted into Wizarding school. Just a theory tho, but maybe her parents gave Lily more praise and support than they gave Petunia (sibling rivalry?) and it escalated so much towards hatred of everything Lily represents. Maybe in some way she trained her mind to see all things magical as repulsive and freaky because she could never do those things, even tho they were really quite fun and fascinating, so she could never divert her parent's attention. Now she's responsible for Harry, the one thing Lily left behind to remind Petunia of her. I wouldn't say she's wretched towards him, but she doesn't want to look him in the eye, approach him, or even talk to him, and she's behind her husband whatever he says about him... except that he can't leave Privet Drive, which leaves her more stuck in the mud than she was before.

Yea there is an obvious sense of jelousy. When i saw PS first i thought ok i bet shed like to be a witch really! Shes just so envious of Lily that she got the letter and she didnt.

Of course Petunia was jealous of Lily. . .From all indications, Lily is everything Petunia is not. But if it were only that, I doubt Harry's life would have been so difficult. In addition to being jealous of Lily, can there be any doubt that Petunia is jealous of Harry? Harry appears to be everything that Dudley isn't. . .kind, honest, giving, not a fat pig. . .

So for Petunia, Lily had the life that Petunia probably wanted. Instead she got a anal retentive puke for a husband, a self absorbed putz for a son, and a boring mind numbing life. Jealous? you bet Petunia is jealous.

obviously i would be soo jealous of my brother if he got to learn magic and i had to learn math!

Here's what I think:

- I find it very strange that Lily's parents were so pleased and proud to find out that she was a witch. That indicates to me that they knew about the wizarding world, because otherwise they'd be just surprised or even shocked wouldn't they? I think there were witches/wizards further back in the family and that the parents were aware of and proud of this.
Maybe Petunia's always had a hint of magic in her (and known it) but not enough to get accepted at Hogwarts? This would definately explain her jealousy towards Lily and why she hates everything magic. From a psychological point of view it sounds very logical. She would always be "imperfect" compared to her sister which makes her hate everything magic.
Just think about it; Petunia said that their parents were on about how "perfect" Lily was. What a strange choice of words as if being a non-magic person makes you less perfect? That also hints at Petunia having magical abilities and that they are weak, hence she is less "perfect" than Lily.

Another thing that supports my theory that there were witches/wizards in the Evans family is that Lily and Petunia were named after flowers. This seems to be a tradition in the wizarding world. Have you noticed how many witches and wizards there are that have been named after flowers and plants?

(Edit: I just realised that she would've been accepted at Hogwarts even with just a hint of magic in her if it was discovered before she was 11, so scrap that and see my later posts )

^I don't think that it means there have been wizards in the Evan's family. There hasn't been a single clue that Petunia can do any magic and JK always gives us a tiny hint. Plus, JK has several running bits that she uses, flower names are just one of them.

I think Petunia is definitely jealous. She probably had to tag along when Lily was getting ready for school. She was also, probably up to date with all the happenings of the wizarding world. She knows a lot about wizards because she lived with one. She was like someone at a zoo. She can look but can't touch. So after a while it angered her. Imagine if Petunia had turned out to be a witch...she probably wouldn't have been so bitter.

I always feel sorry for Petunia. She was the older sister, and I'm sure that even though her parents didn't mean to do so, they probably made a bigger fuss of Lily. I can imagine how Petunia's A grades would be overshadowed by Lily's B plus in Charms (What IS Charms?!)

What I'd like to know - however - is why JK gave Petunia such a name, and ... well, Lily is lovely - Petunia just cries for ridicule. I always get mad when people make Petunia act ten times more idiotic and mean than she normally is -

She's an interesting character, and should be developed, if not in the real books, at least someone ought to give her the benefit of doubt in fanfics.

But so far the only ones we have met in the books that have flower/plant names are witches and wizards. Except our "dear" aunt Petunia. Why?
Besides, JKR has said there is more to Petunia than meets the eye.
What exactely?

From JKR's interview at Edinburgh Castle:

Audience Member: Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?

JKR: Good question. No she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter].

"She's not a squib, -BUT." This BUT makes me suspiscious. It sounds to me as if we who thought she was a squib was on to something. Like: "She's not a squib (as her parents were muggles) but she does have some magic abilities."
JKR has also said that ".. there is a character who does manage in desperate circumstances to do magic quite late in life"
I'm betting this is Petunia.
There are lot's of hints that there are more to Petunia than meets the eye. I think this qualifies as these hints you are looking for. Showing Petunia with magic abilities would completely ruin the surprise if she means to spring that on us later, wouldn't it?

There aren't any hints to Petunia showing any signs of magic JK always gives a clue so they we can guess. Yes there is more to Petunia than meets the eye. Seems more like "She's not a squib but she does know quite a bit about the Wizarding world."

Considering that a large majority of the characters are wizards it isn't exactly a tip off that Petunia could be a witch.

How about Filch? Even thought the kwikspell course didn't exactly help he might be able to pull off these feat, finally getting rid of some of that bitterness towards the Hogwarts Students.

Of course she is gealous. Cuz she never got attention from her parents, and she isn't a witch. But the strange thing is, that she knows about Dementors, in HP OOTP! what do you think about this? k, another Question, IS PETUNIA A NON? who can answer that? Is she like miss. Figg?

Yes, it can be understood that way too of course
But JKR also said that it was "a very good guess" (that she was a squib) and that we would have to read the coming books to get what it is with Petunia.
This I read as: "You don't have the (or enough) cluses yet so you can't read between the lines to figure it out", so maybe she deliberately left out cluse this time? Maybe because it would ruin the plot if people figured it out too early?
JKR said that "..magic almost always shows itself in a person before age 11"
Almost as in not always. What if it was discovered that Petunia had some magic abilities too late to be accepted to Hogwarts? That would certainly cause some bitterness that later could turn into hate towards everything magic and to a deep jealousy (hatred?) towards Lily.

I don't think it's Filch. Mainly because it wouldn't be very interesting or come as much of surprise, him being a squib to begin with. He's also a rather minor character. No, I think it will be someone we've considered a muggle all along.

-Silvana

Edit: I typed Flitch instead of Filch for some reason, lol

I don't think so. It's pretty unlikely. And even so, she could still have gone to Hogwarts, after all, it wouldn't have been so bad. Unless she made a conscious choice not to - which might be likely. Still, I don't think that she ever had enough powers to allow her to be called a witch.

You can't live with a witch sister and NOT pick up a bit of that stuff!

I know I realised after I made that post and that's why I wrote the addition. I don't think you read the last part of my post
Yes, knowing Petunia, she doesn't like anything abnormal, I think it's quite possible that she made the choice to be a muggle and stamped the magic out of herself. That would explain why she thought it could be stamped out of Harry, wouldn't it? From time to time I'm sure there are wizards that chose not to go to Hogwards/be a witch/wizard. We don't know yet what happens to them. If they chose to be muggles, then technically they are, aren't they? The choices we make is such a huge theme in the books too.

Or, as I suggested in my other post; Her abilities showed too late to be accepted at Hogwarts. If that's the case I think they are very weak and that she's the person JKR mentioned will be the one who can do magic late in life under extreme circumstances. Maybe it's even just a fluke, a "one time event".

They're just theories but I don't think either of them are impossible. And I must say that the "...she's a muggle, BUT..." and "..a squib was a very good guess" from JKR could be said to support them

I defintly agree that she was jelouse because if you hate your sister so much you are defintly jelouse cuz no one hates their sister that much if their jelous