Too old? We've no idea how long back Unspeakables have existed so we can't say that. It could've been brought there but that would indicate that it was originally muggle.

Well it wouldn't have to be muggle even if it was ancient (which is what it appears to be according to the text) since in JKR's world, wizards have been around just as long as the rest of the human race. I'm thinking it was created by an individual wizard - maybe to communicate with a loved one that died.

No, the way you said it could be 'found'. That'd indicate muggle heritage. I don't think an individual could do something like that. I think, if it was man made, that it must've been a group effort and seeing as Unspeakables do that sort of work, stuff which is unspoken of, then I think it makes sense that it might've been made by wizards to make contact beyond death.

Well I agree that it's not used for death sentences. Why kill someone when you can take there soul when they're worse than dead? Let's go with the theory that those voices were echoes...or shadows. Because I've been wondering where did Lily, James, Cedric, the old man, and Bertha's echoes go once they were released from Voldemorts wand? And if we do go with this theory that this is a place of echoes or shadows...what would that make Sirius? Would he be given a different type of power? Like since he didn't become a ghost, but technically he wasn't dead yet when he fell through the veil, would he be able to contact Harry like in a dream?

See this post came out just as confused as I am. I, like everyone else want to know the history on the veil.

i agree with you. i hope harry can talk to sirius again

I want to know where they went but I don't think it'd be behind the veil. I don't think the passage of death has anything to do with the veil. I just think it choes the voices of those who are dead. For what reason, I don't know.

We already know what that made him - dead. Dead people can't have powers. hey don't even have bodies.

No because technically, falling through the veil, killed him.

Harry WON'T talk to Sirius directly. Jo has said that like 294759372 times. He could only have contact with Harry through past diaries, letters, pensives, or flashbacks of some kind.

I think I hold a different view - that the voices heard are those of all the dead people in the world maybe (i'm not real sure though), but that it is not the way that their spirits go when someone dies - kindof like it's a window and not a door? Anyway, that's my latest thinking.

And again, I think it was created by an individual wizard very long ago, as a way to communicate with a lost loved one. Then when the inventor of it died, other wizards found it and at some point brought it to the DOM.

I`m totally agree that ghosts can`t say anything about death, because they`re not here, not there, but somewhere in the middle. Although, they`re dead.
I guess that every dead person`s soul pass through the veil. Luna heard some voices there, though her mother didn`t pass the veil. But we don`t know exactly how Luna`s mother died (what magical experiment?).

I agree. I don't think the voices have anything to do with who may or may not have fallen through the veil.

The DoM seems to be FOR experiments though which leads me to believe perhaps it was brought there but I think it may have been created by a group of wizards and experimented on and then it backfired as a 'force' unknown taught them a lesson for meddling in things not to be meddled with. I strongly believe Ms.Lovegood was an Unspeakable or a DoM worker.

Yes I think that's quite possible - but I don't know if she would have died at the MOM since it seems Luna saw it happen. That's how she can see the Thestrals.

"

I wouldn't be so sure. If 6 kids can get in there undetected in the middle of the night, Luna being there doesn't seem to be so unbelievable, in comparison.

Luna didn't act as if she had seen that particular item kill her own mother though. I would think she would have mentioned that seeing as how they were right there looking at it. It just doesn't seem to fit with her reaction when she was in the room with it. I would have thought that if she had witnessed her own mother be killed by the thing she would have warned others to stay away from it - but she seemed just as curious about it as Harry who didn't know what it was.

I don't think it did. I think a spell being fired at it backfired and killed her, like Luna said, it was a spell because she liked to experiment. But she did mention the veil, why else would she seem to know about it if her mother did not at least work on it?

She wouldn't have mentioned it, primarily because the veil put each of them into a trance so she wouldn't have had the chance to. But also it would've been OOC for Luna; she doesn't blurt out her past unless people ask about it or talk of a similar subject. She wouldn't have said it at an irrelevant time when lives were at danger, it would've made her look selfish.

The difference being, Luna appears to know something about it whereas Harry doesn't.

I didn't take Luna's comments about the veil and voices as any more knowledge than Harry. Her statements were more of "faith" than knowledge. Faith being driven by hope. She hopes to be able to see/communicate with her mother again and so she has Faith that the veil proves it would be possible. I don't think she knows any more about than Harry does. Luna is a character very driven by "faith". Some would probably call it blind faith.

Yeah, when it's appropriate. For her to have blurted out about the veil when their lives were in danger would have been undoubtedly unappropriate.

Plus, the veil put each and every one of those who'd seen death, into a trance like state.

If she had done, she'd have been slated for being irrelevant. It would've been a selfish gesture which would be OOC because she isn't selfish. Hermione said it was dangerous but she didn't know for certain.

Normally I'd think it impossible that 6 kids could break into the Government Headquarters for the Wizarding World. My point being, never underestimate anything with these characters.

They were because they stood there basically gaping at it which was why Hermione had to talk to them to snap them out of it and get them away from it.

How can you not when she talks about it as if she knows it and Harry is like "Wha??"

Obviously her statements may be false but the fact that she knew of its existance prior to the DoM, says alot. She could not have got those theories purely from that one experience in the DoM.

Luna doesn't see the veil as a way of communication. She says she'll see her mum 'one day'. In no way does she say the veil will provide the solution for that.

But she obviously knows more, or seems to because she knew of its existance before the DoM incident. It seems that way because she talks about to Harry with real assertion. I don't think she'd have picked up that theory just from visiting it once with Harry.

[quote] Wha???

Ok - let's put this in a different reference - let's say you and some friends were playing on the train tracks and your mother had been killed on the those same train tracks. Now let's say only you knew what a train was, or had seen what it could do to a person out of all your friends present. Now let's say there's a train coming - are you saying it's innapropriate to tell your friends they need to get off the tracks because they are in danger? You are saying that would be selfish of you? That's just insanity to me. Who would let their friends put themselves in danger like that simply to protect the fact that their own mother had been killed on those same tracks?

The Nargles thing was appropriate because they were faced witn misteltoe. It would've been selfish of her to only think of herself - which is what she'd be doing by mentioning her mother at a time when they were all in danger.

There's no suggestion that Luna knows it was dangerous! All we know is that she knew it exists.

Here is all Luna says about the subject. Judge for yourself - I don't think she knows anything about it other than what I already said - she has faith that the veil proves you can have contact with those who have died (in some way, shape or form at some point in the future). I didn't say she thought the veil was the way to do it - only that the voices behind it proves those people are still in existence even though they have died.

OoTP Ch. 38, pg. 863

That is all Luna has to say about the veil. I don't know how you are getting the idea that she knows so much about it. It's just like I've been saying. She has faith that she will be able to see her mother again and she thinks the voices behind the veil prove that.

I don't think she thinks they still exists, she knows her mother's dead, it's just she believes yshe'll see them 'one day' a phrase which often refers to when a person dies.

I just don't find it realistic that she'd get such an in-depth theory from one visit.

I don't think she knows 'so much', but for her to have thought about it that much over one visit seems unlikely. None of the other characters thought of it.

I don't think she bases her theory of seeing her mother again, purely on the voices. After all, her belief that she'll see her mother again seems to come from before the DoM. People generally believe they'll see a loved one again when someone passes away.

Sounds like she just believes in the afterlife in general, and the veil is nothing but an echo of the voices of the dead, meaning they're still around somewhere, maybe able to see and hear the living, but not able to communicate...

We weren't given a chance to see if Harry would have been able to distinguish what the voices were saying if he had listened harder/longer since they left the room. The voices were getting louder which makes me think perhaps with a little more concentration/study you would be able to hear what they were saying.

If people could hear what they were saying then that would open the doors for possible communication. I think perhaps it'd be rather moans or sounds rather than distinct words.

See, she sounds so sure of herself. I'm not saying Luna's right or that her theories are 100% accurate but it seems too ridiculous to me to think she became so sure of a theory like this only a few days after having been there, if it was her first time, which is why I believe she's seen or at least heard of the veil before.

But my point is, Luna believes so many things that other people think is just weird - and where did she get the ideas to develop those theories? It's not as if she's seen an actual Nargle, or a crumple-horned Snorkack for herself - she just believes in them for who knows what reason. She's a person of faith. Some people, like Luna, just have an easier time believing things that other people think is preposterous.