If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Lexicon owner testifies in court; breaks down on stand (UPDATED)
Steve Vander Ark, owner of the Harry Potter Lexicon website, today denied in court that his proposed Lexicon book "copies" J.K. Rowling’s work, referring to it instead as a "ready-reference."
Quote:
It’s a reference book to a piece of literature, so naturally it refers back to the source material ... There are places where we use phrases that are identical or similar.
However, in an attempt to prove that Vander Ark knew that RDR Books was infringing on Rowling’s copyright, an attorney for Rowling presented evidence of an e-mail written by Vander Ark back in August to a Harry Potter fan site which read:
Quote:
I am more than willing to dissociate myself with RDR. They have lied to me, misled me, taken advantage of me and in the end ruined my good standing with fans and with Rowling.
At the end of Vander Ark’s testimony, for which Rowling was present in the court room, the Lexicon owner became visibly upset answering questions by RDR’s attorney.
Quote:
Asked whether he still considered himself a part of the Harry Potter fan community — those that, in Vander Ark’s words, devote most of their free time to all things Potter, he choked up, and said, "I did." But then, when pressed on it, he changed his answer. "I do," he said, breaking up.
"It’s been difficult because there’s been a lot of criticism and that was never the intention. I understand where that comes from, but it’s difficult. The Lexicon has been an important part of my life for the last eight or nine years of my life, and now, to have it turn into this ..."
You can view a video of Rowling addressing the press on the courthouse steps yesterday, courtesy of Reuters.
You can read more on the history of the case at the links below.
UPDATE: In reference to the proceedings in court yesterday, J.K.Rowling and Warner Brothers have released the following statement;
Quote:
A fan's affectionate enthusiasm should not obscure acts of plagiarism. The publishers knew what they were doing. The problem remains that the Lexicon takes an enormous amount of Ms. Rowling's work and adds virtually no original commentary of its own. As we've said in court, it takes too much and adds too little. Authors have a duty to prevent the exploitation of their works by people who contribute nothing original, creative or interpretive.
Additionally more details from Vander Ark's testimony have emerged:
Quote:
RDR attorney Anthony Falzone noted that Vander Ark’s interest has never been about money, but "passion." In testimony today, Vander Ark reported that he has made about $6,500 from the website between 2000 and 2008, through advertising.
Further to that, the judge stated that both sides should be looking toward a settlement.
Quote:
I’m concerned that this case is more lawyer-driven than it is client-driven. The fair use people are on one side, and a large company is on the other side ... The parties ought to see if there’s not a way to work this out, because there are strong issues in this case and it could come out one way or the other. The fair use doctrine is not clear.
Quote:
I’m bringing it up now so you can think about it before you get into the rest of the case. Maybe it’s too late; maybe we’ve gone too far down the road. But a settlement is better than a lawsuit.
Hermione's Double Edward's Spider Monkey Canna is <3
Fwooper
Location: ^ She's mah BFF.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,686
Hogwarts RPG Name: Anna Bella Greingoth
Fifth Year
Ministry RPG Name:
Bella Greingoth
Diagon Alley
WOW. He just needs to back out gracefully. I mean, I'm sorry he broke down and all, but COME ON...it's JKR he's fighting against. You can't win against perfection.
You know, if there was a print Lexicon, I wouldn't even buy it. Why buy it when I could reference it for free online? (Well, relatively free ) And isn't anything that is HP-related that is for sale the property of Jo and WB? Or at least, need the green light from them? I'm confuzzled about that part. Although the idea of a print Lexicon is pretty silly, if books referencing Harry Potter can exist without being "authorized", why is this case special?
Humm...I kinda feel sorry for him, maybe he does just need to bow out gracefully. But how could you not know your in violation of copywrite laws?? Well we'll see how it goes but i'm still clubbin for JK!
Nicola
First Mate of the 7 Seas MMFC/RWFC Sponsor Fan Fic Queen
Niffler
Location: The Burrow / La Push
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,736
Hogwarts RPG Name: Annabelle McClorey
In some ways, I'm slightly annoyed with JKR on what she said. Her statement on the site's lack of information/discussion death was just as "laughable" in my opinion. It's about copyright, ownership, etc. Is she saying that if he added a few more things then she'd be willing to let him print it? I doubt it. So why say something like that? Why go further and rip on the work itself, one that she's praised in the past? It's adding insult to injury, and I don't like that at all. I just don't think that particular statement was necessarily a smart or relevant statement to make.
Quote:
Rowling said she "almost choked on my coffee" one morning when she realized Vander Ark had warned others not to copy portions of his website. She said she now has second thoughts about all the encouragement she has given to online discussions and websites devoted to her books.
Now, I think we all, as loyal fans, have a small reason to take insult to this as well. One fan's mistakes shouldn't represent all of her loyal fans across the entire globe. This really irks me.
I like Steve, and I'm sorry that he's having to go through this. After being such a huge fan for a decade (like me and millions of other original fans), it's hard, especially, to go through something like this. RDR really messed up, and I think this could have been settled earlier or even never been such a big issue if they hadn't done such a poor job for Steve.
I don't really have an opinion on this case, to be honest, (whether the book is or isn't published, I mean) and that fact both startles and saddens me. I suppose I support JKR because she has the right to determine what can and cannot be done with her story and hard work. I completely understand that! If she feels so personal about this, then maybe Steve should back out gracefully. I still feel bad for Steve, though, personally.
But JKR may have to face the fact that she's the author of the most successful book series ever written, and she may be having to go to court for these sort of things and beyond for a long time. I'm a writer, and I understand that creativeness can get blocked because of stress, but I'm saying she might have to get used to it.
Shannon
Last edited by r+h4ever1 : 04-15-2008 at 11:00 PM.
Now, I think we all, as loyal fans, have a small reason to take insult to this as well. One fan's mistakes shouldn't represent all of her loyal fans across the entire globe. This really irks me.
Shannon
fair point from the wonderful Shannon (i luv your fanfict!!!) - hopefully we won't all be punished for the "sins of the few"!
On the other hand "emotions" & "feelings" of hurt and injustice have no place in this matter, despite the reports of both JKR's & SVA's testimonies! It's about the application of the copyrights held by JKR & WB for HP. Whether the fandom likes it or not, if the decision goes in favour of RDR then all copyright holders will have to exercise much greater control of their work for their own protection.
Perhaps JKR feels a certain amount of betrayal considering her more than generous support and enthusiasm for the fandom including LEXICON but in her recent interview with TLC gave the impression that she was more concerned about having to limit her direct support if she loses?
While those in the fandom will naturally take JKR's side in this you still have to wonder about the advice she is getting (or whether she's listening to it) by rambling on about her "feelings" - particularly there being no jury to sway, as this will finally be a matter of law, not emotions.
Location: Wherever Alan Rickman shall be, there will thou find me...
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by r+h4ever1
In some ways, I'm slightly annoyed with JKR on what she said. Her statement on the site's lack of information/discussion death was just as "laughable" in my opinion. It's about copyright, ownership, etc. Is she saying that if he added a few more things then she'd be willing to let him print it? I doubt it. So why say something like that? Why go further and rip on the work itself, one that she's praised in the past? It's adding insult to injury, and I don't like that at all. I just don't think that particular statement was necessarily a smart or relevant statement to make.
Now, I think we all, as loyal fans, have a small reason to take insult to this as well. One fan's mistakes shouldn't represent all of her loyal fans across the entire globe. This really irks me.
I like Steve, and I'm sorry that he's having to go through this. After being such a huge fan for a decade (like me and millions of other original fans), it's hard, especially, to go through something like this. RDR really messed up, and I think this could have been settled earlier or even never been such a big issue if they hadn't done such a poor job for Steve.
I still feel bad for Steve, though, personally.
But JKR may have to face the fact that she's the author of the most successful book series ever written, and she may be having to go to court for these sort of things and beyond for a long time. I'm a writer, and I understand that creativeness can get blocked because of stress, but I'm saying she might have to get used to it.
I ditto absolutely everything you said, and I'm also a bit afraid at the insinuation JKR makes when she talks about having second thoughts about encouraging discussion about her books. It's phrases tossed around like that one that make people who run fan sites, and especially, those of us who are ardent fanfiction readers/writers afraid to give an opinion on anything. And I do feel bad for Steve, I love his website, he seems like a great guy. I could be in the minority about this, but I'm getting a little sick of hearing her life story about being a welfare mom trotted out so much. Yes, a brilliant literary work came from it, but the pity party's been over for years.
Steve is virtually copying her work - period. He is not writing essays theorizing on various topics or comparing & contrasting Rowling's work to Lord of Rings, he is COPYING her words almost word for word. After all, it is an encyclopedia so where in the world else is he going to get the definition/meaning of terms/names/places, etc.??? Only her books. God, this is such copyright infringement it makes me sick it had to get this far. He is attempting to steal her work and make wads of cash and he did what creatively? Nothing.......
In some ways, I'm slightly annoyed with JKR on what she said. Her statement on the site's lack of information/discussion death was just as "laughable" in my opinion. It's about copyright, ownership, etc. Is she saying that if he added a few more things then she'd be willing to let him print it? I doubt it. So why say something like that? Why go further and rip on the work itself, one that she's praised in the past? It's adding insult to injury, and I don't like that at all. I just don't think that particular statement was necessarily a smart or relevant statement to make.
Now, I think we all, as loyal fans, have a small reason to take insult to this as well. One fan's mistakes shouldn't represent all of her loyal fans across the entire globe. This really irks me.
I like Steve, and I'm sorry that he's having to go through this. After being such a huge fan for a decade (like me and millions of other original fans), it's hard, especially, to go through something like this. RDR really messed up, and I think this could have been settled earlier or even never been such a big issue if they hadn't done such a poor job for Steve.
I don't really have an opinion on this case, to be honest, (whether the book is or isn't published, I mean) and that fact both startles and saddens me. I suppose I support JKR because she has the right to determine what can and cannot be done with her story and hard work. I completely understand that! If she feels so personal about this, then maybe Steve should back out gracefully. I still feel bad for Steve, though, personally.
But JKR may have to face the fact that she's the author of the most successful book series ever written, and she may be having to go to court for these sort of things and beyond for a long time. I'm a writer, and I understand that creativeness can get blocked because of stress, but I'm saying she might have to get used to it.
I don't see why I should take out the time to write all of this in different words when Shan's already done it for me. XD
Exactly my thoughts on the subject. ^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladycplum
I could be in the minority about this, but I'm getting a little sick of hearing her life story about being a welfare mom trotted out so much. Yes, a brilliant literary work came from it, but the pity party's been over for years.
To a [pretty huge] certain extent, I agree with you. Yes, Jo has been through a LOT of hard times, and I love her all the more for her display of courage - She was brave, she is brave, and it must be exhausting, having to cope with so much even now. One brave woman, Jo. But, all said and done, I'm getting tired of hearing this all.
Last edited by SenoritaMaxie : 04-16-2008 at 03:31 AM.
"The Lexicon has been an important part of my life for the last eight or nine years of my life, and now, to have it turn into this ..."
He's only got himself to blame.
Quote:
Although the idea of a print Lexicon is pretty silly, if books referencing Harry Potter can exist without being "authorized", why is this case special?
Because this one has 91% HP content, with a distinct lack of quotation marks and no analysis/commentary.
Quote:
Is she saying that if he added a few more things then she'd be willing to let him print it? I doubt it. So why say something like that? Why go further and rip on the work itself, one that she's praised in the past?
Scholarly work is allowed, so had his book had an academic value, it would be allowed. The work is 91% hers; she's criticising the arrangement, which I think, as the original author, isn't unjustified.
Quote:
Now, I think we all, as loyal fans, have a small reason to take insult to this as well. One fan's mistakes shouldn't represent all of her loyal fans across the entire globe. This really irks me.
I doubt she said that to hurt the fans. I don't blame her. This whole ordeal will leave a bitter aftertaste for a long while. Judging from the reports, it's stressed her out a great deal. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if she's started suffering with depression again.
Quote:
I like Steve, and I'm sorry that he's having to go through this. After being such a huge fan for a decade (like me and millions of other original fans), it's hard, especially, to go through something like this. RDR really messed up, and I think this could have been settled earlier or even never been such a big issue if they hadn't done such a poor job for Steve.
He admitted, several times, that to print the Lexicon and sell it as a book would be illegal. He even had a clause written in his contract to cover his backside so that if this happened, RDR would bear the financial brunt. Those are not the actions of an innocent man.
Quote:
Hmm, no offense, but JK sounds really mean.
No meaner than the defence lawyers who were communicating with her via sarcasm. Very professional.
Quote:
If JK decides she doesn't want HP websites anymore... NO SS?????
That's her right. Fact is, if SVA/RDR win, there will be tighter authorship control, across ALL fandoms, because writers will want to avoid getting into similar messes.
Quote:
Perhaps JKR feels a certain amount of betrayal considering her more than generous support and enthusiasm for the fandom including LEXICON but in her recent interview with TLC gave the impression that she was more concerned about having to limit her direct support if she loses?
I'll say! He totally stabbed her in the back. I think losing would hurt her greatly, on a personal level, because Jo has cultivated such a good relationship with her fans.
Quote:
He is attempting to steal her work and make wads of cash and he did what creatively?
Sort of feel sorry for the bloke... You can see he is a Potter fan at heart,
but Mr Vander Ark... Copyright is Copyright!!!!
It's J.K's work simple as that!
Last edited by Dobby's_Dad : 04-16-2008 at 12:01 PM.
Reason: Spelling
Ministry RPG Mod Crypt Keeper HS/F&G President AR/DM Events
Poltergeist
Location: Wanna RP? PM me!
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,073
Hogwarts RPG Name: Antonio Dumont
Graduated
Ministry RPG Name:
Samantha Rose
Magical Education
Why would anyone buy this if it was in print, when the best place for it is here on the Web? It is great to refer to in times when you need to get the answer really quick, without checking the book, but as far as printing this stuff up into a book and trying to sell it, no. I think that would be called plagirism, as JKR has already written everything that is being referenced in the book.
Lexicon owner testifies in court; breaks down on stand (UPDATED) 
) And isn't anything that is HP-related that is for sale the property of Jo and WB? Or at least, need the green light from them? I'm confuzzled about that part. Although the idea of a print Lexicon is pretty silly, if books referencing Harry Potter can exist without being "authorized", why is this case special?
worried!! 
fair point from the wonderful Shannon (i luv your fanfict!!!) - hopefully we won't all be punished for the "sins of the few"!
