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08-02-2004, 11:58 AM
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 Harry Potter and the loose accusations - About HP's influence on the church Summary:
Others say reading Harry Potter novels is dangerous. It's turning youngsters to witchcraft and driving them into the arms of the devil. Having not read Harry Potter himself, a columnist talked with some young people who have. None reported any change in church attendance. Article:
Thanks to Wizardnews for this interesting article Quote: Reading Harry Potter novels is dangerous. It's turning young Kitsapers to witchcraft and driving them into the arms of the devil.
That's not my word. That's the word of Mike Haverluck, another community columnist writing in this paper. The Harry Potter novels are being read by school children, and now we have at least 75 Wiccans in South Kitsap High School, he says, and more than two dozen covens in the county, according to his source, a self-described Wiccan.*
These Harry Potter stories, the writer says, are softening us to the evils of witchcraft and numbing youth to biblical spirituality.
I wondered about this. So, having not read Harry Potter myself, I talked with some young people who have, ranging from a college bound Eagle Scout to an 11-year-old girl who began reading J. K. Rowling at age 7, who has read some of Rowling's books four times and others as many as eight and nine, and who has seen all the movies more than once.
"What lessons do you get out of the Harry Potter novels?" I asked
A. "Be brave." "Be loyal to your friends." "That kids can have disagreements but still be loyal to each other when it counts." "Stand up for yourself and your friends." "The importance of doing the right thing, even if there are undesirable consequences for you." "The importance of working together." "Be honest; tell people what you think." "The importance of accepting other people, even if they're different." "Nothing negative."
None reported any change in church attendance or an urge to take up witchcraft as a result of reading Harry Potter. None reported any devilish impulses. The 11-year-old thought she might even be a better person for it.
"What would you say about people who warn that reading Harry Potter is dangerous, that it drives young people into the arms of the devil?"
A. A 15-year-old boy: "That's kind of dumb. They probably haven't read the books." An 18-year-old boy: "They don't know what they're talking about. If they'd read the books, they'd know better." Another 18-year-old boy: "A bit absurd. The Harry Potter stories are no worse than fairy tales." The 11-year-old girl, rolling her eyes: "It's not true. At least not for anyone I know. Anyone who says that is probably just afraid of the concept of magic."
Mindful of the adage that people don't listen to reason, that reason just means what others have to say, I'll nevertheless insert here a little refresher on what we learned in high school about the rules of argument:*
If you're going to argue that A causes B, and if you're going to play by the rules of sound reasoning, you have to show first that A comes before B. A can't cause B if B comes before A. Next you have to show a causal relationship between A and B. A doesn't cause B merely because B follows A, any more than breakfast causes lunch because lunch follows breakfast. To put it another way, you have to show that B couldn't have happened without A. Or, that nothing but A could have caused B.
Did you notice that the aforementioned community columnist didn't play by these rules? Using an old trick that may have reminded you of Joseph McCarthy, he merely put A (reading Harry Potter) and B (witchcraft in Kitsap county) in the same sentence, then made a dazzling leap to a conclusion that reinforced his bias against any religion not his own. (Apparently some readers let him get away with it, judging by follow-up letters to the editor.)*
He assumes a causal relationship without showing one, and he assumes there were no Wiccans in the neighborhood before the Potter phenomenon. Or at least he doesn't tell us that there weren't.
If real evidence could be found that people are turning to non-Christian religions because of the novels of J.K. Rowling, it has yet to be shown.*
Loose accusation and unsupported claims just don't do the trick.*
It's more reasonable to suspect that people leaving mainstream faiths are just soured by a brand of religion that stirs up fear, that counts on fear to keep the sheep in the flock, that portrays Jesus as a vicious, vindictive, bloodthirsty figure cruelly merciless to his enemies and that sees all but its most devoted adherents as left behind and doomed to a world of unbelievable, indescribable suffering.
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08-02-2004, 10:25 PM
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#26 (permalink)
| | Hippocampus
Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Supercomputer called Deep Thought. Above the mantle, below the trophosphere, between the poles.
Posts: 285
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Quote: Originally posted by Pyre Halliwell@Aug 2 2004, 07:59 PM
...wiccans/pagans believe that there is no good or evil being... You can't assume that everyone who dislikes the books hasn't read them, because some have read them and think they're stupid or dangerous. That's fine, they're entitled to their opinions. It's a problem only when they try to ban the books. Honestly, some people need to learn to keep their ultra-literalist views of the Bible from letting everyone else do what makes them happy.
So the anti-wiccans can think whatever they like. I won't stop them. But look at the following quotes and form your own opinion.
[QUOTE]
- Pyre Halliwell
"There is no good and evil, there is only power, and those who are too weak to see it."
-Professor Quirrell, villain of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.
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08-02-2004, 10:35 PM
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#27 (permalink)
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It's actually nice reading an article like this, I've heard all those idiotic arguments about how the HP books are turning people to satanism and things but I think it's only really extremist groups that say idiotic things like that. My mother is a very devout Catholic as are other members of my family and they've never had a problem with Harry Potter. I don't really think all religious people are this obnoxious just the more right winged religious fanatics.
Quote: How much does anyone wanna bet that the person who wrote the artical saying:
QUOTE
Reading Harry Potter novels is dangerous. It's turning young Kitsapers to witchcraft and driving them into the arms of the devil.
is a biased liberal weenie? Liberal? not hardly try conservative. I don't think many liberals would be too opposed to a person being able to choose to read what they like, or even espouse whatever views they like. :sorcerer:
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08-02-2004, 11:04 PM
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#28 (permalink)
| | Chizpurfle
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: It's a secret! *giggles*
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Quote: Originally posted by Siriusly in Love@Aug 2 2004, 10:54 AM
I'm glad someone wrote this article. I really wish people would read the books before accusing them of being Satanic. If I thought there was a bad message to the books - I wouldn't read them. Simple as that. I wouldn't force that idea on others because that's not what literature is about. You can't just ban books because you don't agree with what they say, or you'd have a very narrow minded population. I have never learned anything negative from Harry Potter because the morals and lessons are always good, and if anything I'm a better person from reading the books. I completely agree. I have learned quite a bit from the Hary Potter books, they have good themes like friendship and loyalty and if anything are good for children. I thought people wanted kids to stop watching television and actually read! Now that they are, they complain that the books are satanic! *shakes head* oh what a world we live in....
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08-02-2004, 11:06 PM
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#29 (permalink)
| | Ramora
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Italy [or so I was wishing]
Posts: 390
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That is so ridiculous... you would think seeing as the guy who is accusing HP of "turning kids for the devil" would have actually READ the story like most reporters do. And what smoke is he cracking anyway it's not like us youth are really worrying about their religion, we are just trying to get through school at the most. The HP hate guy OBVIOUSLY needs to redo his research people aren't going to start studing and worshiping "dark arts" because of a simple book/movie if so this would have started happening A LONGGGGG time ago, btw I would like to mention that two of the PRESISTS at my church read the books and have seen the movie and they are two of the most religious people you will ever meet. Very very absurd. :angry: I sugeest to the nincompoop who wrote this should actually take the time to look at the facts and not just write w.e. on a piece of paper because his deadline is close. Quote: Reading Harry Potter novels is dangerous. It's turning young Kitsapers to witchcraft and driving them into the arms of the devil. Proof please.
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08-02-2004, 11:06 PM
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#30 (permalink)
| | Bundimun
Join Date: May 2004 Location: sin city!!!!
Posts: 44
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that's a really good article and well u cant really judge a book if u havent read it and with all my cousins that i've asked they felt bout hp they think it's been a wonderful thing cuz it helped them learn to luv reading not turn them to magic. i cant believe people r saying that. hp might have caused kids to use their imaginations but that's the only thing it's guilty of.
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08-02-2004, 11:52 PM
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#31 (permalink)
| | Guest |
that is so dumb. Kids just read them because they're fun and it is cool to imagine yourself being part of their world. I mean there are plenty of fairy tales with witches and ghosts and things like that that people have no problem with. Harry Potter is just so popular that they will blame it for anything. It's just another book and movie series. The matrix and lord of the rings are total fantasy too. There's also no way you could write an article like that after not having read the book. This person obviously knows nothing about why people read the books or read the movies.
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08-03-2004, 12:20 AM
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#32 (permalink)
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I know some of u may hate me for this... but since the harry potter books.. i have found myself strolling down the Magik studies isle at my library... even reading a few books (dont stone me all at once please) it wasnt because of harry potter but like i thought that was so cool to do that stuff. Now bear in mind.. im 14.... But still. A lil kid might like go nuts so to speak...
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08-03-2004, 12:26 AM
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#33 (permalink)
| | Jarvey
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: USA
Posts: 144
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READ THE FREAKING BOOKS PEOPLE!!! dang, i mean some people judge things before they even really know about them. i mean, half the people who are criticizing HP haven't even read them!!! and as for all those people who are worshipping the devil and practicing evil, well they take HP too seriously and aren't getting the right message from the books. this makes me so MAD. J.K. never meant for the books to be evil or bad or devilish. there are plenty of other books that are about witchcraft but i don't hear anyone criticizing them! how about the chronicles of Narnia? or the Charlie Bone books? all of them are great books and they have magic in them and nobody is saying anything about them. i am soooooo angry.  | |
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08-03-2004, 12:42 AM
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#34 (permalink)
| | Skrewt
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: in a dollhouse; playing twister with Rupert
Posts: 1,472
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Great article. Explains what people should REALLY hear. Harry POtterteaches you how to be a good person inside. Just like that 11-year old girl said. Even an 11 year-old can find values in the books and can honestly say they've made her a better person.
People are just afraid of the concept of magic. It is fiction. Parents always say kids should have a little more imagination. Fiction is part of a child/person's imagination.
If they are afraid of children reading about death, puh-leez, it is a part of nature and life. You can hear worse things on the 10 o'clock news...
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08-03-2004, 01:31 AM
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#35 (permalink)
| | Chimaera
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As a pagan/wiccan/witch i find that very offensive witchcraft is not evil and has nothing to do with the devil. it is the same as with putting a gun in the hands of the wrong person and i for one am tired of hearing people accuse others of being devil worshippers and so forth because of their religion they are just being closed minded and assuming something when they dont understand it in the first place. and for the whole thing about HP turning people away from church that is just absurd people have been leaving their old faiths behind and starting new ones for years some due to the fact that their have been insidents in their lives that have caused those changes others just feel like it maybe they dint share the same beliefs. also if you have ever seen real magic then you would know that HP is nothing like it. either way i am sick and tired of people being closed minded also people at the churches that think HP is bad should at least read the books and then maybe they would see that HP teaches good values and morals and allows kids to broden their own imagination.
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08-03-2004, 01:46 AM
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#36 (permalink)
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WHOOHOOO!!!! That guy ROCKS! At last people is talking seriously! and that other reporter who said the HP book are evil, should be sued and FIRED immediately! How he dares! That kind of information should never be posted, how do they allow it?? Unfoundamented and false, I tell you, this guy should be fired 
Btw, GO those kids who have their testimony! It shows the difference between liking something and thinking you enter some kind of cult by doing it "Teaching the kids to be evil..." PFFT!!!!! Quote: ...wiccans/pagans believe that there is no good or evil being... I am not a Wiccan, but I don't believe in Good and Evil either; and that is from BEFORE I started reading the HPbooks.
To me it is: "There's no good and evil, there's only ignorance, and those too proud to admit it" 
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08-03-2004, 04:05 AM
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#37 (permalink)
| | Guest |
Quote: Originally posted by daniel'schick@Aug 2 2004, 05:00 PM
and as for all those people who are worshipping the devil and practicing evil, well they take HP too seriously and aren't getting the right message from the books. this makes me so MAD. J.K. never meant for the books to be evil or bad or devilish. I have a feeling all those devil worshippers aren't reading Harry Potter. Quote: QUOTE*
How much does anyone wanna bet that the person who wrote the artical saying:
QUOTE
Reading Harry Potter novels is dangerous. It's turning young Kitsapers to witchcraft and driving them into the arms of the devil.
is a biased liberal weenie?
Liberal? not hardly try conservative. I don't think many liberals would be too opposed to a person being able to choose to read what they like, or even espouse whatever views they like. But it's the liberals who are so biased they can't even do any real research. Almost anything they say, just do some research and you'll find it's false or construed from some insignificant, questionable evidence. Sorry if i'm going off-topic, and actually, the only people I know that are opposed to books such as Harry Potter are, gues what, liberal. EDIT: I forgot to mention that the media is owned by liberals and there's an extremely small percentage of conservative media... meaning no matter what your political views, the majority of reporters use that guys fashion of writing, which is liberal, not doing thorough research etc. the reporter that did the interviewing and whatnot took a more conservative approach and didn't pull answers out of his bottom. Quote: QUOTE*
...wiccans/pagans believe that there is no good or evil being...*
I am not a Wiccan, but I don't believe in Good and Evil either; and that is from BEFORE I started reading the HPbooks. Same here. I'm not wiccan, I quite honestly don't have any 'set' religion because, no offense, they are all too 'cult-like' to me.
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08-03-2004, 05:50 AM
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#38 (permalink)
| | Crup
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Grimmauld Place
Posts: 2,214
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Quote: Originally posted by hermyone11@Aug 2 2004, 04:54 PM
Well, I think the little mermaid encourages little children to become evil octopuses... LMAO. Oh yeah, me too!
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08-03-2004, 08:17 AM
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#39 (permalink)
| | Guest |
well being a god beliver i dont think this has swayed my faith ether i think its just like any other book just better  ! :sorcerer:
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08-03-2004, 01:54 PM
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#40 (permalink)
| | Bicorn
Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Cumbria,Uk
Posts: 1,755
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eh? i love hp i havent been to church since i was 9 that wasnt cos of hp it wasnt even out then but i left cos i just lost my faith in god its just stupid its just a book like anyother book
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08-03-2004, 07:01 PM
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#41 (permalink)
| | Crup
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,094
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Quote: ...wiccans/pagans believe that there is no good or evil being... Quote: "There is no good and evil, there is only power, and those who are too weak to see it."
-Professor Quirrell, villain of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. Personally, it's not that I don't believe in good and evil, it's that I believe one can not exist without the other. I've seen nothing in life that is pure good or pure evil.
As for power... it is a dangerous thing. Shakespear wrote another thing about power: "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely" (I think that was from Julius Ceasar)
And I just wont even mention the power the Christian church has. :whisle: Nope, wont mention that at all. 
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08-03-2004, 08:17 PM
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#42 (permalink)
| | Guest |
thats crap that people judge hp like that b4 reading books..its just a book!!!......
HARRY POTTER ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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08-03-2004, 08:18 PM
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#43 (permalink)
| | Imp
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 113
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Quote: As a pagan/wiccan/witch i find that very offensive witchcraft is not evil and has nothing to do with the devil I agree completely with this. I am wiccan too. I was before I even read the HP novels. People who say that HP will lead to witchcraft are ignorant, they dont know what the wiccan religion is really about. It is not evil, far from it. If anything it is more nature based. It also believes that anything you do comes back to you three-fold. So if you do something "evil" to someone, it will come back to you 3X worse, but if you do something "good" it will come back to you 3X better.
I just hate when people make assumptions without any knowledge of what they are talking about. Fear and lack of knowledge is what causes racism and prejudice, and I hope in this day and age this kind of thing could be eliminated.
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08-04-2004, 08:09 PM
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#44 (permalink)
| sporksSUB Skrewt
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Quote: Originally posted by Siriusly in Love+Aug 2 2004, 10:24 PM--> |
08-05-2004, 08:29 AM
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#45 (permalink)
| | Doxy
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Canada
Posts: 424
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You know, there's a saying in my house:
Consider the source.
Meaning, of course, when something that is popular (and I notice there was no uproar about the series until AFTER it became immensely popular) is critisized, you must ensure that you think about what motives the critic would/could have in taking the critisized media to task.
I wonder if the Christian Fundamentalists realize that THEY are causing more people to leave the Chrisitian faith than any book series has. I am very sorry for any Christians who are honest and true to their faith, but these fundamentalists are giving Christianity a very nad name; sort of like all those Catholic Priests have been for the last few decades.
In conclusion: Books are good, intolerance bad.
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08-05-2004, 09:33 AM
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#46 (permalink)
| | Bowtruckle
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: ATX
Posts: 255
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If people feel that the book is influencing their child then they need to stop them from reading them...and as a teen I know firsthand that children aren't as easily swayed as adults may think. I'm not (and many others i know) going to turn Wiccan because it's the next best thing on TV. | |
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08-05-2004, 12:38 PM
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#47 (permalink)
| | Hinkypunk
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Queensland Australia
Posts: 849
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oh what a load of poppycok.. am i allowed to say that? lol . . . .its just a book . . geezz . . . if parents are that worried about kids and their religous beliefs.. dont let them read teh book.. but sitting there having a big sulk about it afterwards doesnt do anything . . .
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