OMG i cried so much when dumbledore died!! i was shocked for ages!i even re read it to make sure
i thought he might die as harry need s to do what ever happenes on his own so now hes on his own, well not entirely but no more wise dumbledore to help him!

i totally agree. now sirius & dumbeldore are all gone, harry has no one to rely on. He has Hermoine & Ron for friendish but Dumbeldore & sirius proctected harry in a fatherly way. without dumbeldore- the most powerful wizard & the one voldermort feared, harry will have to fight voldermoret alone. he has no choice now & it is only him to can defeat voldermort. I belive dumberldore understood this & that's why he ordered snape to kill him if he must.

(still hating snape)

This is what I felt. What hit me was the realization of harry getting the black house.
-Sirius was truly dead. -
- 'the vow' snape is willing to die! but for what are his intentions?
- Dumbledore truly trusts snape and his word is absolute. no matter what.
- Dumbledore's death was no in vain there Is a larger purpose
- Snape must gain the trust of voldermort:killing Dumbledore. saving malfoy =fulifilling the vow. Dumbledore had a larger plan his death along with the others, has a purpose, as did harrys parents.

I think that DD chose to die at that point.

My reasons are.

-Dumbledore never feared death, he knew that all people must eventually die.
-It was only when he CALLED for Severus that Snape came forward.
-Then DD pleaded...Would the greatest wizard of all time plead for his life?? Pesonally I'd rather go down like a man.
-JKR has been pointing out for a while now that DD is an old wizard.
-DD was most likely already passing after drinking that potion, which he should have just used the cup to spill it on the ground (honestly, for a smart wizard, he's pretty blind when he comes to these things...also when harry mentioned the summoning charm)
-Only after DD pleaded did Snape use the curse.

So those are the reasons why I think DD died....Now for my reasons that Snape is still on the good side, although he's acting suspect.

-DD trusted him, DD doesn't trust ppl without proof.
-Snape didn't kill Harry, and it's not because Voldie wants harry as we know Bartemius Crouch tried to kill harry in GOF.
-Snape appeared in Bartemius Crouch's foe glass in GOF, as Crouch was a Death Eater if Snape was one too he shouldn't have appeared in it...(My sister pointed this out, I can't take credit)

And finally my suspicions to why DD trusted Snape and didn't tell Harry.

I think that Snape secretly liked Lilly Evans (Harry's mummy). It's a pretty big assumption but I have thought about it and it makes sense look I'll prove it.

In OOTP when Harry dives into Snape's pensive, and he sees the memory of when James Potter was harassing snape, she backed him up...Now this isn't because she liked him, but because she was a good person...Now based on this I think that she would have backed him up on earlier times as well.
So if I were Snape, small, thin, ugly, and had no friends, i'd find myself developing a crush on the female who was the only person being nice to me. Also as we found out in HBP Lilly was tallented in Potions, maybe this impressed snape??
So when DD explained to Harry that when Snape revealed the first half of the prophecy to Voldemort and he said that when he found out what Voldemort's conclusions had led him to do he was extremely regretful (james and lilly's murders) and then later on lupin pointed out (again) that Snape hated James this singled out Lilly who had died...So as it seems Snape cared about her because of the times when she backed him up as a young wizard....This also explains to why DD didn't tell harry about this (if it's true) imagine being harry and being told that Snape had a crush on your mum.....


What do you think??

^ Interesting theory as to why DD trusts Snape. It would certainly explain why he hasn't told Harry, although there could be other reasons.

I definitely think DD knew he was going to die as early as when he picked Harry up from the Dursley's. Why did he tell Harry to keep his Invisibility Cloak with him at all times, and stress that this was very important? Maybe because he knew Harry might be with hiim when the time came and he needed Harry to be invisible.

Also, when Harry reports Snape's and Draco's suspicious activities, DD tells Harry that he does not find this of any importance. When Harry presses, DD gets a little impatient and tells him that maybe he (DD) understands better than Harry thinks he does and that Harry has not told him anything disturbing.

The only thing that gives me a twinge when it comes to Snape's trustworthiness is when DD says (I can't find the quote so I'm really paraphrasing here) because he is so clever and wise and usually right that when he does make a mistake, it's a doozy.

Not fearing death and choosing to die are two very different things. With Voldemort back in power, I just can't see Dumbledore actually choosing death. It would be irresponsible of him, and that's not Dumbledore.

The pleading was more likely a result of the potion. Even the greatest wizard of the time can't do much if he chooses to imbibe something poisonous.

We already know the cup was enchanted (or there was a general arwea enchantment) to prevent Harry from filling it with water for Dumbledore to drink. I believe it equally likely that the potion would not have spilled out of the cup onto the floor. Dumbledore didn't just make it up when he said "It must be imbibed". This was a defense mechanism for the horcrux, enchanted to weaken the person trying to get it.

Agreed on all three.

Not sure. it's possible of course that Snape liked her. From what we know of her, many people probably had crushes on her. Getting her killed is easily a good reason for Snape to realize his wrongs and switch sides. It's a good idea.

sorry you feel that way Gryphonia. since you feel HP is dead i don't know for how long you will keep up with SnitchSeeker. I just wanted to say sorry you feel that way. Good luck to ya. and best wishes!!!

Heh, I actually wondered about the Snape/Lily thing myself ever since I read "Snape's Worst Memory" in book five. ^^

Good point about the Foe Glass, I completely forgot about that.

I do hope that Dumbledore's portrait will still be able to converse with Harry. I have my doubts that Dumbledore will actually tell Harry anything important straight-out (since we all know how mysterious Dumbledore is, and he does love his little hints and riddles), but hopefully this version of Dumbledore will be somewhat reassuring to Harry. Hrm... I wonder if portraits recall their deaths like ghosts do, or if they go on as a sort of memory and nothing actually happened to them?

... although if Harry said he wouldn't be returning to Hogwarts next year, then that won't really matter, unless there are portraits of Dumbledore outside of the school... Mwahhhh. Never mind, then. ^^;;

[quote=Sharv]We already know the cup was enchanted (or there was a general arwea enchantment) to prevent Harry from filling it with water for Dumbledore to drink. I believe it equally likely that the potion would not have spilled out of the cup onto the floor. Dumbledore didn't just make it up when he said "It must be imbibed". This was a defense mechanism for the horcrux, enchanted to weaken the person trying to get it.[quote]

Good points raised, but you are forgetting that:

1. DD created the goblet and told harry that the Green Stuff needed to be consumed. I don't think DD would have enchanted his own goblet lol.

2.Harry scooped up water from the lake and poured it on DD's face.


If the Goblet WAS enchanted why didn't the water from the lake dissappear to like harry's charm water.

-----

Rowling annoys me, this series requires too much thinking, I don't want to think lol!

Do you want to know what really upset me about this? It's not the fact that Dumbledore dies...it's how he died. Dumbledore is way too good and worthy to be killed by Snape. And he died pleading. Is that not the most un-dumbledorish way to go out? I pictured him going out in a blaze of glory...not like this. rawr.

Yes, you are right, he died pleading, but for what?

There is no concrete evidence to say that Snape is evil or that DD died in vain.
The answers will come though.

So I dunno if anyone has already mentioned this theory but here goes:

The whole Harry Potter series has been following the "Hero's Journey" arc in almost every way. Part of that journey involves the loss of the mentor figure. This was true in Lord of the Rings, when Gandalf fell in the pit and 'died' in Moria; also in Star Wars when Obi Wan 'died' at the hands of Darth Vader, and there are countless other examples.

Another part of this trend, however, is that the mentor figure always comes back to guide the hero again, although perhaps in a limited way. Gandalf returned from the dead, and Obi Wan used the Force to communicate with Luke.

For this reason, I think that Dumbledore WILL come back to the world in some way to guide Harry on the most perilous portion of his quest. Could he perhaps have had a horcrux himself somewhere in the world, through which he can resurrect himself?

Of course, the way in which Dumbledore 'returns' could also simply be through the portrait in his office, which would also make sense in the "Hero's Journey".

Whaddya guys think?

I personally am hoping that's untrue. Not because I'm jealous - though that has a wee, leeetle bit to do with it. That plotline is really butchered in fanfics, and the thought of it now makes my blood boil.

Emotions aside, *winces* I have to admit that there is some probability, but I'd like to point out, that there must have been a few thousand people in Hogwarts that Snape didn't 'hate' either. It was mainly the Marauders, and among those, James and Sirius, that Snape hated because they bullied him.

(Oh, and by the way, all the Snape bashers who give vent to their hatred without something solid to back them up are really getting on my nerves (to digress, I'm sorry if I'm putting this a bit strong, but like I said, my nerves) would anyone like to start a Snape Defense Club?)

The sixth book is so much more spellbinding, thrilling and funnier than its predecessors! However, when Dumbledore died, I felt like as if Sirius is dying all over again. Dumbledore is one of my favourite characters and so was Sirius. It’s so sad to see them both dead! Right now, I hate Snape. I never thought Snape is THE Half-blood prince because I’ve always assumed that he is a pureblood. Nor did I think that he would dare to kill Dumbledore! Now I’m not sure whether Snape is still working undercover for the good guys or if he has changed sides. Maybe this is just a ploy of JK to trick readers into thinking that he’s a traitor and then make Snape risk his life for Harry in the seventh book!

There's a part somewhere in the last few chapters where Snape told a fellow Death eater not to place the Cruciatius Curse on Harry. If Snape's the bad guy, why would he care? Anyway, I don't think Dumbledore is one to plead for his life! Maybe he was instead pleading with Snape to kill him so that Snape wouldn't lose his. He did after all made an Unbreakable Vow to complete Draco's mission(I'm assuming the mission is killing Dumbledore) in case he couldn't. If he didn't kill Dumbledore he would have died!

Not to forget, does anyone have any idea who's R.A.B? I'm guessing it's maybe Regulus Black...what do ya think?

i have to admit that the only reason i didn't cry at the funeral or the death as i was at work and my job involves constantly answering a fone!!!

if i had been at home i would of cryed tho i still don't really understand the meaning of him kind of pleading with Snape!!!

Actually, I wasn't forgetting it, I just mis-spoke. I don't believe the goblet itself was enchanted, I think the island was enchanted. I think it forced them to use the water from the lake, which would activate the Inferi. The enchantment was simply that no outside water could be summoned onto the island.

The lake water stayed because that's what Voldie wanted - the potion made Dumbledore need water, and the only water around would activate the final defenses.

That said, I am disappointed that Dumbledore couldn't come up with a better way around the defenses than "I have to drink this poison."

and that is why ia m not reading it at work...

i dont find the funeral bit sad it is the death and how he is killed

That is true... It would seem very uncharacteristic for him to return through and evil way. And he seems a believer of 'when your time comes..'

But (and my friend takes credit for this) if you are talking about if it is possible.. and DD having to have killed someone, his chocolate frog card from book 1 says he defeated the dark wizard Grindelwald in 1945, which you could interpret as killing this wizard. But I'm sure that must have been mentioned already...

I agree^

I do like the character of Snape, because he is so complicated, interesting and unpredictable. But he did make me angry when I initially read the death.. of course after the theories started emerging, I realised he was probably acting on the orders of DD who figured his time had come, and knew it was essential Snape maintained his double life. He will be vital to the defeat of Volde, having gained the trust of him and killing DD which will please him so much.

DD is much too smart to have been tricked by Snape, and the shock of his death was because we all intially thought he'd been stupid - which is hard to believe.

I don't believe Dumbledore has killed anyone. He's the good guy, remember, he doesn't use Unforgivable Curses. He's always used spells to disable, not kill. Him "defeating" a dark wizard, I view as him capturing them and putting them in Azkaban.

Now, I don't think anyone would have faulted him if he *had* killed an evil wizard while battling them, sort of an "in-the-line-of-duty" thing. But it just doesn't strike me as something he'd do.

The more I think about this, the more I wonder, though. He held Harry immobile and forced him to watch his mentor get killed brutally before his eyes by the one person he hates most in that school. It was a cruel act, not one I'd expect from Dumbledore.

I know, he only held him so he wouldn't reveal himself and get killed as well, but still.. He has to know that Harry will *never* trust Snape after this, no matter what.

*Shrug* Only another year or so to find out.

(Oh, and by the way, all the Snape bashers who give vent to their hatred without something solid to back them up are really getting on my nerves (to digress, I'm sorry if I'm putting this a bit strong, but like I said, my nerves) would anyone like to start a Snape Defense Club?)[/quote]

Can we please?

It's not likely that he created a Horcrux, since, as previously mentioned, that means you have to kill someone in order to create it, and it's not likely Dumbledore would have killed anyone if he could help it. But I do agree with you, and think that he will be returning in some way. We can hope! ^^

Ooh, I'd be interested in joining that! ^^ Poor old Snape, getting attacked all the time.

I'm still not sure whose side Snape is on. I felt so bad for Bill.

Theres one line in the book at Dumbledores funeral Harry realizes that there is no one to protect him. I couldn't help but sob when I read that.

^ I agree. I am not sure about Snape yet. I know Dumbledore was weak after his escapades with Harry but I can not believe he would not try and do something to avoid the killing curse. I think there's more to this than meets the eye. I'm not saying that I think Dubledore will come back, he's dead and we all know there is no way for him to come back, but I think he's probably left his pensieve to Harry and probably alot of memories to guide him along the way.

Snape seems to have been on the dark side all along, but Dumbledore trusted him and coming from one of the greatest wizards of all time that must count for something.