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Old 06-06-2006, 06:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default So who else was in Godric's Hollow that night?

Jk Rowling was asked was anyone else in Godric's Hollow that night. She didnt answer meaning there must be some interesting information behind that question.
I always assumed it might have been just Voldemort and Wormtail there. But now I come to think about it I think there werent just those five wizards there that night.
I was thinking the other night why did the Lestranges and Crouch go to the Longbottom's after Voldemort fled, for information on where Voldemort had gone. I mean the obvious answer could be that as a high ranking ministry auror, Frank might have some confidential information and it would have been obvious they are in the order having fought Voldemort three times like the Potters.
Then I got to think maybe the question of who else was in Godric's hollow is intertwined with the question of why ask the Longbottoms.
I believe the Longbottoms were hiding in Godrics Hollow as well at the time of Voldemort's attack. They would have watched over the Potters while the Potter's did the same though obviously not in the same house lol
They might have alerted Dumbledore and the ministry, thats how he knew so much in 24 hours of the attack and to alert people such as Hagrid and Hagrid telling McGonagall.
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Old 06-19-2006, 05:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't think Longbottoms were at Godric's Hollow that night. I mean, if they were there, wouldn't they do something againts Voldemort? Frank was a Auror. He could do something. Did they just hide in somewhere while LV was killing Potters?
Death Eaters tortured them just because they held them responsible for the LV's downfall.
There might be someone else who just witnessed the murder. But not in the house, maybe in the backyard. Or someone who just witnessed Voldemort breaking in?
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Old 06-19-2006, 05:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think that idea about the Longbottoms is plausible, but it definitely has some gaping holes in it. What I've always wondered is how Hagrid and Sirius Black were both able to go to the house afterward. Had Pettigrew told them how to get there as well?
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Old 06-21-2006, 08:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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There is no way Pettigrew told Hagrid and Sirius. Because he already betrayed them telling Voldemort Potters' place.
Could Regulus have been there?
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Old 06-21-2006, 09:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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no because regulus had died by then.It says he died in 1979 on the black family tree and the attack the potters was in 1981.
Also Sirius would have killed wormtail as he left Godrics Hollow to hun peter down.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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In both of those circumstances, we do not know for sure.

Regulus: We are not sure he is dead. He may never have been killed, it is quite possible he escaped.

Peter: He may have transformed into a rat and hid.
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I believe there was a second DE at Godric Hollow. There had to be someone else there to relate what happened, but this person either was left outside as a lookout or arrived on the scene late. Throughout the books we are led to believe James died first but in the cemetary scene in GoF we find that Lily died first. Even Prof. Dumbledore was mildly suprised when Harry related the sequence of individuals emminating from the wand. I believe that when that person arrived, Lily and James were already dead. That person witnessed the attempted assination of Harry and the results. I believe Wormtail was so scared he fled. He did not transform into a rat, this was done by someone else at a later date. After that night, Sirius tracked him down and got into a lot of trouble. For 13 years, he was in rat form and could not return. If he had transformed himself, he would have able to return. I believe this second DE saw the devastation, reflected upon the events and change his outlook on life. He wrapped Harry in the invisability cloak and sought medical help. He could not go to St. Mungo, it was not safe. I think he fled to Hogwarts with Harry. This is reinforced by the presence of AD, MM and Hagrid at the delivery of Harry to the Dursleys. This individual forever gainned the confidence Dumbledore. I believe this individual was Snape.
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Old 08-02-2006, 03:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darlinga
I believe there was a second DE at Godric Hollow. There had to be someone else there to relate what happened, but this person either was left outside as a lookout or arrived on the scene late. Throughout the books we are led to believe James died first but in the cemetary scene in GoF we find that Lily died first. Even Prof. Dumbledore was mildly suprised when Harry related the sequence of individuals emminating from the wand. I believe that when that person arrived, Lily and James were already dead. That person witnessed the attempted assination of Harry and the results. I believe Wormtail was so scared he fled. He did not transform into a rat, this was done by someone else at a later date. After that night, Sirius tracked him down and got into a lot of trouble. For 13 years, he was in rat form and could not return. If he had transformed himself, he would have able to return. I believe this second DE saw the devastation, reflected upon the events and change his outlook on life. He wrapped Harry in the invisability cloak and sought medical help. He could not go to St. Mungo, it was not safe. I think he fled to Hogwarts with Harry. This is reinforced by the presence of AD, MM and Hagrid at the delivery of Harry to the Dursleys. This individual forever gainned the confidence Dumbledore. I believe this individual was Snape.

I agree with you on the snape thing. I really do think he was there. But like someone stated earlier I don't think the longbottoms was there because they would have helped in some way.
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Old 08-02-2006, 04:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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This is from http://www.mutabilisdesign.com/pince/darknight.htm (This is an excellent source – way to go to the people behind this site!)

The Dark Night at Godric's Hollow

A timeline of the events

[Please note: my commentary and questions are in italics; page numbers refer to the American hardcover first editions.]

For more than a year before the attack, Dumbledore suspected that Harry Potter and Neville Longbottom might be targeted by Lord Voldemort, in part because of Sybill Trelawney’s prophecy (see text below), in part because of information provided by his spies (Severus Snape? Who else? [see PoA 204 ch10]) among the followers of Voldemort.

We don't know when, but James, Lily and baby Harry go into hiding in a house in the town of Godric's Hollow.

Approximately a week before the attack, Dumbledore suggests that the Potters use the Fidelius Charm to protect their hiding place. The Charm's Secret Keeper was initially supposed to be James’ best friend Sirius Black. However, Sirius persuaded the Potters to bluff and use Peter Pettigrew instead. [PoA 365 ch19] Unfortunately, Pettigrew had become a servant of Voldemort and he betrayed their hiding place to him. A week after the Charm was first performed, Lily and James are attacked by Lord Voldemort. It is implied that Voldemort acted alone.

Monday*, October 31, 1981, nighttime at Godric’s Hollow
Man’s voice: "Lily, take Harry and go! It’s him! Go! Run! I’ll hold him off ------"
Lily goes to Harry's room where he is in his cot [crib].
According to Voldemort, James died "straight-backed and proud." [GoF 660 ch34]

The sounds of someone stumbling from a room -- a door bursting open -- a cackle of high-pitched laughter -- [PoA 240 ch12]

Lily’s voice: "Not Harry, not Harry, please not Harry!"

Voldemort: "Stand aside you silly girl … stand aside now."

Lily: "Not Harry, please no, take me, kill me instead ----- "
Lily: "Not Harry! Please … have mercy … have mercy… "

Harry hears a shrill voice laughing and the woman screaming. [PoA 179 ch9 & 239 ch12]

Then Harry remembers a blinding green flash and a burning pain in his forehead, then a high, cold cruel laugh. Voldemort had used the Avada Kedavra Curse on Harry.

*October, 31, 1981 was in reality a Saturday, not a Monday.
What happened to Harry

Lily was killed, but 1-year-old Harry survived, marked with a large jagged wound by the curse meant to take his life. Voldemort lost almost all of his powers as well as his body, and fled "horribly weakened." Dumbledore believes that Lily’s love and sacrifice ("ancient magic") created invincible protection for Harry, and that the curse then rebounded on Voldemort. It is not clear if Lily’s protection was deliberate or not. Voldemort believes it was an "unwitting" sacrifice. [GoF 652 ch33]

Later, Dumbledore comes to believe that in cursing Harry, Voldemort transferred some of his powers, including Parselmouth, the ability to talk to snakes. Dumbledore also deduces that the scar works as a psychic link between Voldemort and Harry; this link strengthens as Harry gets older and as Voldemort gets stronger.

Voldemort’s account of what happened to him:

"Pain beyond pain, my friends; nothing could have prepared me for it. I was ripped from my body, I was less than spirit, less than the meanest ghost … but still, I was alive. What I was, even I do not know … I, who have gone further than anybody along the path that leads to immortality. You know my goal – to conquer death. And now, I was tested, and it appeared that one or more of my experiments worked … for I had not been killed, though the curse should have done it. Nevertheless, I was as powerless as the weakest creature alive…" [Gof 653 ch33] Voldemort’s one remaining power is that he can possess the bodies of others.

What happened to the house:

There is some mystery about what happened to the house. The AK Curse only kills; it normally does not leave visible trauma. And yet, Hagrid reports to Dumbledore that the house was "almost" destroyed [SS 15 ch1]; he also tells Harry that an "evil curse" destroyed the house. [SS 55 ch4] If it wasn't the AK curse, what curse or curses damaged the house? If it was the AK curse, what about it caused so much physical damage? The rebound? the destruction of Voldemort's powers? A duel with James?

Tuesday, November 1, 1981

We don't know how Dumbledore knew what happened, but sometime in the early morning hours, Dumbledore sends Rubeus Hagrid to Godric’s Hollow. As best we know, Hagrid is first on the scene. We do not know how he travels there, but he gets there so quickly that he is able to rescue Harry from the ruins of the house just before Muggles start "swarming around." We can guess from Dumbledore's instructions to Hagrid that somehow Dumbledore already knew that Harry was orphaned, and that "ancient magic" had been performed to protect Harry. Dumbledore had already decided that the best place for Harry was with his remaining blood relatives, the Dursleys.

What happened to the bodies and wands?

JKR has not explained this yet. When Hagrid tells us about that morning, no mention is ever made of what remained of the Potter’s bodies, or even what remained of Voldemort. Since muggles were swarming all over (according to Hagrid), muggle authorities may have been involved in removing the bodies.
James's and Lily's wands are unaccounted for. At some point [when?], Peter Pettigrew obtains Voldemort's wand (he returns it to him in GoF). According to an unsubstantiated report from the 2004 Edinburgh Book Festival, JKR told someone that Pettigrew hid the wand while he pretended to be the Weasley's rat. [TLC 2004]

Sirius says he had previously arranged with James and Lily to "check on Peter" that Wednesday. When he discovered Pettigrew was missing from his hiding place, Sirius got worried and took his flying motorcycle to the house in Godric’s Hollow, where he was horrified by the destruction and death. [PoA 365 ch19] Hagrid is still there and comforts him, and James, as Harry’s godfather, asks to take the child. However, Hagrid is on strict orders from Dumbledore [how does Dd know this is necessary?] to bring Harry to his Aunt and Uncle’s house on Privet Drive. Sirius gives his motorcycle to Hagrid for the trip, saying "I won’t need it anymore." [PoA 207 ch10]

And the word is quickly spreading through the wizarding world: sometime before 8:30 that morning, Minerva McGonagall (as a rather uptight cat) is already waiting and watching at Privet Drive, and others are beginning to celebrate. Vernon Dursley heads off to work.

A whole day passes.
Dumbledore arrives at Privet Drive just before midnight and tells Minerva McGonagall that Hagrid is late, so another mystery is the time lapse between the time Hagrid and Sirius parted and the time Hagrid arrived at Privet Drive. Once Hagrid gets there, it is clear from his report that he has not seen Dumbledore since he left to go to Godric’s Hollow. There are at least 12 hours that are unaccounted for.

About Hagrid and Sirius's motorbike:
In early versions of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's (Sorcerer's) Stone, before Hagrid leaves Privet Drive, he tells Dumbledore that he is going to take Sirius's bike back to him. According to Steve Vanderark at the HP Lexicon, JKR has requested that Hagrid's dialog here be changed from "I'll be takin' Sirius his bike back" to "I'd best get this bike away." This is for continuity because in book 3 [PoA 207 ch10] Sirius tells Hagrid that he can keep the bike because he "won’t need it anymore." This change has already been made in editions published in the UK.

So far, the motorbike has not reappeared in the books, although in the 2004 World Book Day chat, JKR told us that we'll find out what happened to it, but "the real sleuths among you might be able to guess."
Immediate aftermath

Thursday, November 2, 1981, Petunia Dursley finds Harry in a bundle of blankets on her doorstep, along with a letter from Albus Dumbledore tucked inside. She agrees to provide Harry with a home and in so doing, knowingly seals a protective charm on Harry while he lives in her house. [OotP 835-836 ch37] This letter is very interesting. In the movie, the letter is addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. Dursley." JKR has told us that this was Dumbledore's last letter to Petunia, but not his first. [JKR Website]
That same day, Sirius finds and corners Peter Pettigrew in some metropolitan area [where?], but according to Sirius, Pettigrew yelled "for the whole street to hear that I’d betrayed Lily and James. Then before I could curse him, he blew apart the street with the wand behind his back, killed everyone within twenty feet of himself --- and sped down into the sewer with the other rats …" [PoA 363 ch19] The blast killed 12 muggles.

Cornelius Fudge, then a Junior Minister in the Department of Magical Catastrophes, is first on the scene. He recounts: "A crater in the middle of the street, so deep it had cracked the sewer below. Bodies everywhere. Muggles screaming. And Black standing there laughing, with what was left of Pettigrew in front of him … a heap of bloodstained robes and a few --- a few fragments -----" The biggest part of Pettigrew they found was his finger. [PoA 208 ch10]

The muggle witnesses claim that Pettigrew cornered Black and attacked Sirius saying "Lily and James, Sirius, How could you?" Then they said that Sirius raised his wand and blasted Pettigrew "to smithereens." Black is taken away by twenty members of the Magical Law Enforcement Squad and is imprisoned in Azkaban without a trial; Pettigrew posthumously receives the Order of Merlin, First Class. [PoA 208 ch10] Although Harry, Ron, Hermione and members of the Order of the Phoenix eventually realize that Sirius Black was innocent, Black has never been officially cleared of the crime.

Key Quotes
Sybill Trelawney’s prophecy, spoken to Dumbledore early summer 1980 at the Hog's head in Hogsmeade:
The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches …
Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies …
And the Dark Lord will mark him as equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not … And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives. (Voldemort knows only the first two parts of the prophecy.)

Hagrid: "Never wondered how you got that mark on yer forehead? That was no ordinary cut. That's what yeh get when a powerful, evil curse touches yeh -- took care of yer mum an' dad an' yer house, even -- but it didn't work on you, an' that's why yer famous, Harry." [SS 55 ch4]
Harry had been a year old the night that Voldemort -- the most powerful dark wizard for a century, a wizard who had been gaining power steadily for eleven years -- arrived at his house and killed his father and mother. Voldemort had then turned his wand on Harry; he had performed the curse that had disposed of many full-grown witches and wizards in his steady rise to power -- and, incredibly, it had not worked. Instead of killing the small boy, the curse had rebounded upon Voldemort. Harry had survived with nothing but a lightning-shaped cut on his forehead, and Voldemort had been reduced to something barely alive. His powers gone, his life almost extinguished, Voldemort had fled; the terror in which the secret community of witches and wizards had lived for so long had lifted. Voldemort's followers had disbanded, and Harry Potter had become famous. [GoF 20 ch2]

What Harry pieced together from what he heard when Dementors were near: Harry had been picturing his parents' deaths over and over again for three years now, ever since he'd found out they had been murdered, ever since he'd found out what had happened that night: Wormtail had betrayed his parents' whereabouts to Voldemort, who had come to find them at their cottage. How Voldemort had killed Harry's father first. How James Potter had tried to hold him off, while he shouted at his wife to take Harry and run ... Voldemort had advanced on Lily Potter, and told her to move aside so that he could kill Harry ... how she had begged him to kill her instead, refused to stop shielding her son ... and so Voldemort had murdered her too, before turning his wand on Harry ... [GoF 216ff ch14]

[sources: US hardcover editions, SS 8-17 & 55-57; CoS 332-333; PoA 204-207 & 358-375; GoF 652-653; OotP 835-836 & 841]

source: http://www.mutabilisdesign.com/pince/darknight.htm
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Old 11-22-2006, 07:03 AM   #10 (permalink)
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OOOOOOH either DD or Snape i would have thought, many good points given for both of them to be there
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Old 11-22-2006, 07:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I would have thought that if dumbledore was at Godrics Hollow, he wouldn't have waited for Hagrid to turn up and get Harry out of the house just to bring him to him at Privet Drive.

I think that it would be Snape or Wormtail.
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Old 11-22-2006, 08:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I dont think wormtail, he wouldnt talk that aggressively or confident... even if he was with his master we have first hand knowledge of that
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Old 11-22-2006, 08:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
I dont think wormtail, he wouldnt talk that aggressively or confident... even if he was with his master we have first hand knowledge of that
Do you mean the "silly girl" comment?
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Old 11-22-2006, 08:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I do yes sorry i dont think he has the will or the ability to sound that confident
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Old 11-22-2006, 08:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Neither do I, but I think that was Lord Voldemort!

That was him giving Lily the option of standing aside and living, hence her sacrifice is that much more important. I think that it had to be Voldemort giving her the option, in order for her to unnecessarliy giving her life for Harry and therefore sealing her protection for him.
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Old 11-22-2006, 08:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Yeah i suppose... but i still think that could have been snape, i kow what you are getting onto, but.. she still sacrificed herself no matter what or who said silly girl... in the end she still died for harry no matter who said what kind of thing, i think i just made no sense lol
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Old 11-22-2006, 08:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Totally understand what you are saying!

However, I'm probably going to use the most quoted JKR interview ever, but when JKR gave the interview to mugglenet/ leaky cauldron -

Quote:
ES: This is one of my burning questions since the third book - why did Voldemort offer Lily so many chances to live? Would he actually have let her live?

JKR: Mhm.

ES: Why?

JKR: [silence] Can't tell you. But he did offer; you're absolutely right. Don't you want to ask me why James's death didn't protect Lily and Harry? There's your answer - you've just answered your own question - because she could have lived - and chose to die. James was going to be killed anyway. Do you see what I mean? I'm not saying James wasn't ready to; he died trying to protect his family, but he was going to be murdered anyway. He had no - he wasn't given a choice, so he rushed into it in a kind of animal way. I think there are distinctions in courage. James was immensely brave. But the caliber of Lily's bravery was, I think in this instance, higher because she could have saved herself. Now any mother, any normal mother would have done what Lily did. So in that sense, her courage too was of an animal quality but she was given time to choose. James wasn't. It's like an intruder entering your house, isn't it? You would instinctively rush them. But if in cold blood you were told, "Get out of the way," you know, what would you do? I mean, I don't think any mother would stand aside from their child. But does that answer it? She did very consciously lay down her life. She had a clear choice. -
I take that to mean that it was Voldemort who said those words, so the other person at Godrics Hollow took more of a silent role. It might have been Snape (I think that is as likely as Wormtail), but I don't think that we can distiguish who it was with what was said.

Hope that makes sense.
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Old 11-22-2006, 08:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yeah totally, i had never read that tank you...i do think there was someone else there.. that we will have to remain to see... thank you
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Old 11-22-2006, 08:49 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Not at all, it's all just theories and speculation at this point. I just tend to take JKR word for word when she says something. And that is a very good interview for constructing theories.

You watch, I bet it's someone completely different now.
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Old 11-22-2006, 08:51 PM   #20 (permalink)
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we will watch this space and will have to discuss it again when we find out or if we find out more info... i think there may have been someone there but thank you for your help and opinions atleast if we find out we can tlak about it more lol
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Old 11-24-2006, 12:46 PM   #21 (permalink)
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i dont think its snape as JKR said he wasnt there at godric's hollow that night...i think itd dumbledore as he said that it was his fault and kill me first and dont kill them or something like that when harry was making him drink the potion whil trying to get the horcrux so maybe he was under the invisibility cloak that night as JKR said that the fact that dumbledore got the cloak from james was important or something.

suggestions?
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