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Old 07-06-2011, 10:37 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Indeed, we never saw a Slytherin, who was even remotely decent, until Slughorn was introduced in book 6. But even so, it seems like Gryffindor and Slytherin had very different values. If they really are that close to each other, I would JKR to explain that better.
Yeah,I agree that Rowling didn't make her intention come across all to well. Perhaps she was trying to write gow school children feal. (Pergaps they are based on the real life Greasers and Scotts)

Or maybe it was always her intention for them to be bad. Myabe they are the villians,after all children stories are black and white. There are no shades of gray in childrens books. So maybe Rowling decided to make Slytherins be that.
If this is the case,then there are two explanations as to why she suddenly said they are good:
She thought it over and decided that it was harsh and unrealistic to condemn 200 children to be villians.
She was being diplomatic. Have you heard of Pottermore? It;s a website where Rowling and a few others have set up a quiz to see what House you are in and they have a game and information. Naturally,some of her fans will be sorted into Slytherin. If she maintains that Slytherin are evil,some of the younger fans might get offended.

I hope that it is neither of these. I hope that she didn't just change her mind,and that this was like that all the time.
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:46 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Well I suppose we will never know as he wasn't sorted into slytherin.
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:11 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Everything would defintely be different. Snape would defintely appreciate Harry a lot more as he would of saw that Harry is not like his father and he's Lily's son after all!

However, apart from Snape's treatment of Harry, Harry wouldn't of been friends with Ron as Ron hates Slytherin. They would of lost touch with eachother (as they became friends on the train) and they wouldn't of been friends with Hermione either as it was Harry's idea to save Hermione from the troll.

But then again there would be no story if Harry was in Slytherin! And Harry is not a true Slytherin either, he was a horcrux...
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:13 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Snape would defintely appreciate Harry a lot more as he would of saw that Harry is not like his father and he's Lily's son after all!
Lily was a Gryffindor too though, so if Harry had ended up in Slytherin, it wouldn't have been because he was his mother's son. But I agree with everything else, that you said in your post.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:41 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Everything would defintely be different. Snape would defintely appreciate Harry a lot more as he would of saw that Harry is not like his father and he's Lily's son after all!

However, apart from Snape's treatment of Harry, Harry wouldn't of been friends with Ron as Ron hates Slytherin. They would of lost touch with eachother (as they became friends on the train) and they wouldn't of been friends with Hermione either as it was Harry's idea to save Hermione from the troll.

But then again there would be no story if Harry was in Slytherin! And Harry is not a true Slytherin either, he was a horcrux...
I agree that at first he would have been enemies with Ron. But Ron would have grown past his prejudice once Harry saved his sister. I see no reason why Harry would not still be a hero. All his life he was abused, sometimes evene starved. He was always hated. I doubt the influence of Slytherin would corrupt him in the least bit. He would have full meals.(because fortunately the teachers are not bigots like Snape, they would not starve students, even Slytherins. Being sarcastic.) I still see no reason why he would not save Ginny. I was in a long debate about this on the second page, and my statement was not challenged. No comment was made on what would have made Slytherins corrupt Harry when the Dursleys would have.

I am still of course waiting for a response to that. The statement that "Rowling never showed us any good Slytherins except for Slughorn" just isn't going to work. Harry is a good person, regardless of what people he lives with. By all reasoning, he would be abused far less in Slytherin than he was before.
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:31 PM   #56 (permalink)
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But just look at Tom Riddle and Severus Snape, who also had bad childhoods, except they both ended up in Slytherin instead of Gryffindor. Tom Riddle of course became Lord Voldemort, and Snape not only became a Death Eater, but also the worst teacher at the whole school (well, at least until Umbridge came along). The sorting hat sees what's inside you, what lies even deeper than whether or not you were neglected and/or abused as a child. And thus, Harry became a Gryffindor and the other two became Slytherins.

I also still have doubts, that a Slytherin would have saved Ginny. Except maybe if it was another case of the Severus/Lily situation, that a Slytherin boy was unhappily in love with a Gryffindor girl. But even then, I don't see the Slytherins as the heroic type. That's what the Gryffindor house stands for. And I also still must say, that other than Horace Slughorn, who except for a slight pure-blood bias seemed to be a good enough guy, the Slytherin house seems to consist of nothing but creeps. Of course, we didn't get to see every Slytherin to ever attend Hogwarts since the school was founded. But we sure got to see a pattern...
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:35 AM   #57 (permalink)
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I think the Harry and Snapes relationship would have been the same. He never hated Harry, but hated James..
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Old 08-24-2011, 08:16 PM   #58 (permalink)
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But just look at Tom Riddle and Severus Snape, who also had bad childhoods, except they both ended up in Slytherin instead of Gryffindor. Tom Riddle of course became Lord Voldemort, and Snape not only became a Death Eater, but also the worst teacher at the whole school (well, at least until Umbridge came along). The sorting hat sees what's inside you, what lies even deeper than whether or not you were neglected and/or abused as a child. And thus, Harry became a Gryffindor and the other two became Slytherins.

I also still have doubts, that a Slytherin would have saved Ginny. Except maybe if it was another case of the Severus/Lily situation, that a Slytherin boy was unhappily in love with a Gryffindor girl. But even then, I don't see the Slytherins as the heroic type. That's what the Gryffindor house stands for. And I also still must say, that other than Horace Slughorn, who except for a slight pure-blood bias seemed to be a good enough guy, the Slytherin house seems to consist of nothing but creeps. Of course, we didn't get to see every Slytherin to ever attend Hogwarts since the school was founded. But we sure got to see a pattern...
The Hat also takes into great consideration what the person being sorted wants. He could put you into a house based on what you want. I recall posting the fact that it was only a few random events that led to Harry hoping to not be in Slytherin, thus making the Hat put him in Gryffindor. I will go through them again:

Pretend Sprout was sent to pick up Harry instead of Hagrid. Or any other teacher. They wouldn't have cursed Slytherin in front of Harry the way that Hagrid did. So Harry would not have heard the story about Slytherin. Then, Harry becomes friends with Ron on the train. It is time to get sorted! Harry sees Ron being sorted into Gryffindor, so he must wish he were in Gryffindor, right? He would not say "Not Slytherin" because he would never have heard the story about them. But would he really ask for Gryffindor? I am sure he would like to be in the same house as his friend, but in the book he did not ask for Gryffindor. All he asked was "Not Slytherin." Anything as long as it is not Slytherin. But in this alternate world where Hagrid did not pick him up, he would not care. He might even accept Slytherin, as he would be hearing the Hat trying to convince him to be in Slytherin. "Slytherin could help you on your way to greatness", that was what the Hat had said.

See? It is not just what is deep in your soul. Harrys sould would have stayed the same if he had not met Hagrid, but he would not be afraid of Slytherin.

Tom Riddle and Snape were sorted due to their personality, I'll give you that. But Slughorn was just a normal person. Would your logic not dictate that he not be in Slytherin? What is it dep in his sould that makes him belong in a house of "villians" if that is what they are? A small prejudice?

I will admit that Harry belongs in Gryffindor. That is where I would have sorted him if I were the Hat. But I am not the Hat, and the Hat seemed to think that he was a Slytherin. He must have seen something inside him, and not just the fact that he were a hocrux. Because that has nothing to do with Harry's soul, that is literally Voldemorts sould.
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Old 08-25-2011, 07:46 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I think the Harry and Snapes relationship would have been the same. He never hated Harry, but hated James..
Even if Snape didn't actually hate Harry, he still was unable to give him a chance. He was convinced from the beginning, and I don't know if he ever understood that it was wrong, that Harry was the same immature jerk, that his father had been as a kid. Snape didn't even seem to consider, that Harry could have inherited anything from his mother, who had been the love of his life. So if Harry had been a Slytherin, I guess Snape would felt sure about him not being like his father, so he would have given him a chance.

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The Hat also takes into great consideration what the person being sorted wants. He could put you into a house based on what you want. I recall posting the fact that it was only a few random events that led to Harry hoping to not be in Slytherin, thus making the Hat put him in Gryffindor. I will go through them again:

Pretend Sprout was sent to pick up Harry instead of Hagrid. Or any other teacher. They wouldn't have cursed Slytherin in front of Harry the way that Hagrid did. So Harry would not have heard the story about Slytherin. Then, Harry becomes friends with Ron on the train. It is time to get sorted! Harry sees Ron being sorted into Gryffindor, so he must wish he were in Gryffindor, right? He would not say "Not Slytherin" because he would never have heard the story about them. But would he really ask for Gryffindor? I am sure he would like to be in the same house as his friend, but in the book he did not ask for Gryffindor. All he asked was "Not Slytherin." Anything as long as it is not Slytherin. But in this alternate world where Hagrid did not pick him up, he would not care. He might even accept Slytherin, as he would be hearing the Hat trying to convince him to be in Slytherin. "Slytherin could help you on your way to greatness", that was what the Hat had said.

See? It is not just what is deep in your soul. Harrys sould would have stayed the same if he had not met Hagrid, but he would not be afraid of Slytherin.
But didn't the hat consider putting Harry into Slytherin mostly because there was a part of Voldemort inside of him, and not because of Harry's own personality? I also doubt that professor Sprout, who was a Hufflepuff, would have anything good to say about Slytherin, even if she probably wouldn't have said it as directly as Hagrid did. And the same could be said about a Gryffindor like professor McGonagall and a Ravenclaw like professor Flitwick. I think Slytherin had a bad reputation in all the other three houses, even though it seems like it was the Gryffindors, who liked them the very least.

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Tom Riddle and Snape were sorted due to their personality, I'll give you that. But Slughorn was just a normal person. Would your logic not dictate that he not be in Slytherin? What is it dep in his sould that makes him belong in a house of "villians" if that is what they are? A small prejudice?
I can't really answer why Slughorn was in Slytherin. Except for that slight pure-blood bias, he rather does seem like he would have belonged in another house. But I'm glad that JKR showed us one decent Slytherin, because that gives us proof, that not every student from that house since the founding of the school has been a creep, even if too many of them were. Maybe all Slughorns had been Slytherins for centuries, and he just ended up there because of that, just like all seven Weasley kids ended up in Gryffindor.

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I will admit that Harry belongs in Gryffindor. That is where I would have sorted him if I were the Hat. But I am not the Hat, and the Hat seemed to think that he was a Slytherin. He must have seen something inside him, and not just the fact that he were a hocrux. Because that has nothing to do with Harry's soul, that is literally Voldemorts sould.
But I wonder if the sorting hat didn't see the part of Voldemort's soul, that was inside Harry, as a part of Harry himself. It surely wasn't common at all, that a person was a horcrux, so the hat probably couldn't take that into consideration. But even if that's not the whole explanation, Harry was a rather hard case for the hat. But it didn't speficially say, that Harry belonged into Slytherin either, but it was only after he said "not Slytherin", that it told him that thing about Slytherin helping him achieve greatness.

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Old 08-25-2011, 09:09 PM   #60 (permalink)
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But didn't the hat consider putting Harry into Slytherin mostly because there was a part of Voldemort inside of him, and not because of Harry's own personality? I also doubt that professor Sprout, who was a Hufflepuff, would have anything good to say about Slytherin, even if she probably wouldn't have said it as directly as Hagrid did. And the same could be said about a Gryffindor like professor McGonagall and a Ravenclaw like professor Flitwick. I think Slytherin had a bad reputation in all the other three houses, even though it seems like it was the Gryffindors, who liked them the very least.


I can't really answer why Slughorn was in Slytherin. Except for that slight pure-blood bias, he rather does seem like he would have belonged in another house. But I'm glad that JKR showed us one decent Slytherin, because that gives us proof, that not every student from that house since the founding of the school has been a creep, even if too many of them were. Maybe all Slughorns had been Slytherins for centuries, and he just ended up there because of that, just like all seven Weasley kids ended up in Gryffindor.


But I wonder if the sorting hat didn't see the part of Voldemort's soul, that was inside Harry, as a part of Harry himself. It surely wasn't common at all, that a person was a horcrux, so the hat probably couldn't take that into consideration. But even if that's not the whole explanation, Harry was a rather hard case for the hat. But it didn't speficially say, that Harry belonged into Slytherin either, but it was only after he said "not Slytherin", that it told him that thing about Slytherin helping him achieve greatness.
I am not sure if the Hat wanted to put him into Slytherin because of the Hocrux or not. He might have. But there are other possible reasons as well. Remember at the end of Chamber of Secrets?:
"Listen to me, Harry. You happen to have many qualities Salazar Slytherin prized in his hand-picked students. His own very rare gift, Parseltongue - resourcefulness - determination - a certain disregard for rules," he added, his mustache quivering again. "Yet the Sorting Hat placed you in Gryffindor. You know why that was. Think."
"It only put me in Gryffindor," said Harry in a defeated voice, "because I asked not to go in Slytherin...."
"Exactly," said Dumbledore, beaming once more. "Which makes you very different from Tom Riddle. It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -Page 333

About your other points:
Yes, I doubt the other teachers would sing praises of Slytherin, but I doubt they would scorn it in the way that Hagrid did.
Also, your theory about Slughorn does make sense, but that would mean that what is deep in your sould does not really matter to the Hat, if he puts you in a house only because your father was in it.
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Old 08-26-2011, 08:31 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I am not sure if the Hat wanted to put him into Slytherin because of the Hocrux or not. He might have. But there are other possible reasons as well. Remember at the end of Chamber of Secrets?:
"Listen to me, Harry. You happen to have many qualities Salazar Slytherin prized in his hand-picked students. His own very rare gift, Parseltongue - resourcefulness - determination - a certain disregard for rules," he added, his mustache quivering again. "Yet the Sorting Hat placed you in Gryffindor. You know why that was. Think."
"It only put me in Gryffindor," said Harry in a defeated voice, "because I asked not to go in Slytherin...."
"Exactly," said Dumbledore, beaming once more. "Which makes you very different from Tom Riddle. It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -Page 333
Ah, I had forgotten about the first part of that conservation. I have to repeat though, that the hat didn't really say, that Harry should be in Slytherin, but rather that that house would help him achieve greatness. (And at that time, Harry was concerned about not being as good at magic as kids, who had been born into the magic world.) So I also have started thinking, that the horcrux thing wasn't that important after all. But I think Harry eventually would have been sorted into Gryffindor anyway, even if he hadn't specifically asked to not be sorted into Slytherin.

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Yes, I doubt the other teachers would sing praises of Slytherin, but I doubt they would scorn it in the way that Hagrid did.
You're probably right about that, but like I said earlier, I think he still eventually would have been sorted into Gryffindor.

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Also, your theory about Slughorn does make sense, but that would mean that what is deep in your sould does not really matter to the Hat, if he puts you in a house only because your father was in it.
I wonder if the hat doesn't have different reasons for putting different people into certain houses. For many people, if not most people, it will of course have to do with their personality. But there also has to be those, who are on the boarder line between different houses, and in such cases, they might be sorted into a certain house just because of family traditions. For example, neither Percy Weasley or Peter Pettigrew seemed to a typical Gryffindors, and yet, they were sorted into that house.
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Old 08-29-2011, 04:43 PM   #62 (permalink)
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harry could not have been put in slytherin cuz remember?:the hat gives u a choice and considers ur opinion about which house u should be in!!
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:48 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Ah, I had forgotten about the first part of that conservation. I have to repeat though, that the hat didn't really say, that Harry should be in Slytherin, but rather that that house would help him achieve greatness. (And at that time, Harry was concerned about not being as good at magic as kids, who had been born into the magic world.) So I also have started thinking, that the horcrux thing wasn't that important after all. But I think Harry eventually would have been sorted into Gryffindor anyway, even if he hadn't specifically asked to not be sorted into Slytherin.
I agree that Harry if a Gryffindor. I stated before that I would have put him in Gryffindor if I were the Hat. Harry has all the good qualities of Gryffindor, and the Sword did come to him. But I also think that he was very close to being put in Slytherin. The whole question which this thread is about is a question worthy to be examined because it is possible that he would have been in Slytherin. He would still be Harry, that's what I'm saying.




[QUOTE=I wonder if the hat doesn't have different reasons for putting different people into certain houses. For many people, if not most people, it will of course have to do with their personality. But there also has to be those, who are on the boarder line between different houses, and in such cases, they might be sorted into a certain house just because of family traditions. For example, neither Percy Weasley or Peter Pettigrew seemed to a typical Gryffindors, and yet, they were sorted into that house.[/QUOTE]



I agree. Percy seems to be a Slytherin, simply because he was ambitious to the extremem. Wormtail, on the other hand, is harder. Although Gryffindor would be the last place he should be in. Maybe his parents were brave. I agree with you on this one.
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Old 09-03-2011, 04:45 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Considering that it would change the whole story, Snape probably wouldn't hate him but I think Malfvoy would still bag on him and stuff.
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:33 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Considering that it would change the whole story, Snape probably wouldn't hate him but I think Malfvoy would still bag on him and stuff.
I agree 100% about Malfoy. Harry rejected Malfoy before he was sorted, so it wouldn't make much of a difference for Malfoy of what house he was in.
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Old 09-04-2011, 07:04 AM   #66 (permalink)
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I agree that Harry if a Gryffindor. I stated before that I would have put him in Gryffindor if I were the Hat. Harry has all the good qualities of Gryffindor, and the Sword did come to him. But I also think that he was very close to being put in Slytherin. The whole question which this thread is about is a question worthy to be examined because it is possible that he would have been in Slytherin. He would still be Harry, that's what I'm saying.
Actually, I think Harry is so clearly a Gryffindor, that he would have to be a different person to be sorted into another house.

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I agree. Percy seems to be a Slytherin, simply because he was ambitious to the extreme. Wormtail, on the other hand, is harder. Although Gryffindor would be the last place he should be in. Maybe his parents were brave. I agree with you on this one.
Percy did come through in the end though. But I don't know what to think about Pettigrew. I guess he just got sorted into the same house as his friends.
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Old 09-04-2011, 02:56 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Actually, I think Harry is so clearly a Gryffindor, that he would have to be a different person to be sorted into another house.


Percy did come through in the end though. But I don't know what to think about Pettigrew. I guess he just got sorted into the same house as his friends.
Well I have proof that he would be the same person either way. At this point it is only wistful thinking to say that he would have to be a different person.
"It only put me in Gryffindor," said Harry in a defeated voice, "because I asked not to go in Slytherin...."
"Exactly," said Dumbledore, beaming once more.

-page 333

I don't see how it can get any clearer than that. This was said in the book, I really don't see how Rowling could have said it any clearer. As I said before, Harry would not have resisted Slytherin if Hagrid was not sent for him. It was ONLY because of that, that was why he ws worried about Slytherin.
I really don't see how the view of "Harry would have to be a different person" can be defended anymore. It is simply not true. I have seen no proof whatsoever that Harry would have to be a different person.
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Old 09-04-2011, 04:17 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Actually, I've always taken that to mean the totally opposite, that because Harry asked not to be sorted into Slytherin, he showed that he didn't belong there.
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Old 09-04-2011, 08:27 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Furienna View Post
Actually, I've always taken that to mean the totally opposite, that because Harry asked not to be sorted into Slytherin, he showed that he didn't belong there.
Yeah, it does. But if Hagrid was not sent to get him(one very small thing), he would not have asked to not be in Slytherin. He woul still be Harry.
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Old 09-05-2011, 03:19 PM   #70 (permalink)
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He still would have been sorted into Gryffindor eventually, I'm sure of it.
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Old 09-05-2011, 03:56 PM   #71 (permalink)
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He still would have been sorted into Gryffindor eventually, I'm sure of it.
Well the books have made me believe the opposite. I have actual quotes from the books to prove my point. I see absolutely no proof to say that he would be a different person. Dumbledore himself told Harry that it was ONLY because Harry chose Gryffindor that the Hat put him there. I tend to agree with him.
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Old 09-06-2011, 06:28 PM   #72 (permalink)
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I don't think it would make much difference.
He's still James' son after all, who he hated.
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:33 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Slytherin's Talon View Post
Well the books have made me believe the opposite. I have actual quotes from the books to prove my point. I see absolutely no proof to say that he would be a different person. Dumbledore himself told Harry that it was ONLY because Harry chose Gryffindor that the Hat put him there. I tend to agree with him.
But like I've said before, the hat didn't right out say "you should be in Slytherin", but rather "Slytherin would help you achieve greatness". And it probably only said so because Harry, at that point, was desperate to prove himself as good as the kids, who had been raised into magic world, and maybe also because of the horcrux. But when Harry had rejected Slytherin, there was no doubt left in the hat, that he belonged in Gryffindor, where it probably would have placed him anyway. It didn't even consider talking him into choosing Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff, and it probably wouldn't have talked about Slytherin either, if it hadn't been for Harry specifically asking not to go there. And you have said yourself, that you would have put Harry in Gryffindor, and the sword of Gryffindor came to him. So as I see this, Dumbledore didn't mean "it was only your choice, that made the hat put you in Gryffindor", but rather something like "through your choice, you showed that you didn't belong in Slytherin".

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Old 09-17-2011, 03:08 PM   #74 (permalink)
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But like I've said before, the hat didn't right out say "you should be in Slytherin", but rather "Slytherin would help you achieve greatness". And it probably only said so because Harry, at that point, was desperate to prove himself as good as the kids, who had been raised into magic world, and maybe also because of the horcrux. But when Harry had rejected Slytherin, there was no doubt left in the hat, that he belonged in Gryffindor, where it probably would have placed him anyway. It didn't even consider talking him into choosing Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff, and it probably wouldn't have talked about Slytherin either, if it hadn't been for Harry specifically asking not to go there. And you have said yourself, that you would have put Harry in Gryffindor, and the sword of Gryffindor came to him. So as I see this, Dumbledore didn't mean "it was only your choice, that made the hat put you in Gryffindor", but rather something like "through your choice, you showed that you didn't belong in Slytherin".
Harry has many Slytherin qualities according to Dumbledore. He has more Gryffindor qualities, but he wouldn't have to be an entirely different person to be in Slytherin. There are countless parts I could quote which are in accord with that. I agree that he IS a gryffindor, but he could have just as easily been a Slytherin. "Determination, a certain disregaurd of the rules. etc."
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Old 09-18-2011, 07:37 PM   #75 (permalink)
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I'd hope that Snape would have taken Harry under his wing a bit, he is Lily's daughter after all.

I think that a lot of people would have been quite wary of Harry as well. I mean I think its mentioned in one of the books that some people thought Harry would grow up to be a Dark Wizard. I'm thinking Harry would have been a positive influence on Slytherin though, as opposed to Slytherin being a negative one on him!
Agree with all of this.
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