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Old 05-19-2006, 10:29 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Honestly. I never used to trust Snape. I thought he was just some terrible guy that Dumbledore was stupid to trust. But then I looked over all the information in the books (especially the sixth) that point to the fact that Snape is really a good guy. Think about it. It makes so much sense to believe that Dumbledore's death was planned. Dumbledore knew he wasn't going to live much longer. He knew that his time on earth was almost up, that's why he had all those meetings with Harry in HPB. He wanted to tell Harry everything he knew (or guessed) so that when he was gone, Harry would have information. Also, Snape made the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa Malfoy. He promised he would watch over Draco and if Draco couldn't complete his task he would do it. If Dumbledore knew his time was running short and knew he was dying soon he would want to save as many lives as he could in doing so. If Dumbledore wouldn't have been killed, Draco would have died for not completing his job and Snape would die because of the Unbreakable Vow. Dumbledore wouldn't want to live (especially knowing he would die soon anyways) with two good people dead because of a the task of killing him. My biggest piece of proof to this though is on pages 405 and 406 of HBP. It's a conversation between Hagrid and Harry. Here it is:

"Well -- I jus' heard Snape sayin' Dumbledore took too much fer granted an' maybe he -- Snape -- didn' wan' ter do it anymore--"
"Do what?"
"I dunno, Harry, it sounded like Snape was feelin' a bit overworked, tha's all -- anyway, Dumbledore told him flat out he'd agreed ter do it an' that was all there was to it." (HBP pgs 405 + 406 American Version)

See. In that exerpt Snape doesn't want to do something and Dumbledore is telling him he has to. I think the thing Dumbledore wants him to do is kill him. That way Voldemort still trusts Snape, and no one else gets killed. There's also another part that leads me to believe it was all planned. Right before Snape kills Dumbledore. Dumbledore says something on page 595 of HBP. Here it is:

"Severus..."
The sound frightened Harry beyond anything he had experienced all evening. For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading.
Snape said nothing, but walked forward and pushed Malfoy rougly out of the way. The three Death Eaters fell back without a word. Even the werewolf seemed cowed.
Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face.
"Severus... please..." (HBP pg 595 American Version)

You may say, "Oh. Well Dumbledore was obviously begging for his life," but before Dumbledore said anything Snape's attention wasn't even on him. He was listen to Amycus as he told him that Draco couldn't do it. Then Dumbledore had cut him off with what he said. And I thought about it, and I don't think Dumbledore was begging for his life at all. I think he was begging him to do what he wanted him to do -- kill him. Snape didn't want to do it but when he heard Dumbledore pleading, he knew he must. But then you may say, "What about the part that says "there was revulsion and hate etched in the harsh lines of his face." Well, maybe it wasn't the type of hate you would think it would be. Maybe it was hate for the cruel crime Dumbledore was making him do.

You may read this and say, "I don't care. I'll never trust Snape." I see where you're coming from. I never trusted him. But take a minute to think it over. Maybe he's not as bad as everyone thinks...

Last edited by weasleylover15 : 05-21-2006 at 01:39 AM.
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Old 05-29-2006, 11:33 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weasleylover15
Honestly. I never used to trust Snape. I thought he was just some terrible guy that Dumbledore was stupid to trust. But then I looked over all the information in the books (especially the sixth) that point to the fact that Snape is really a good guy. Think about it. It makes so much sense to believe that Dumbledore's death was planned. Dumbledore knew he wasn't going to live much longer. He knew that his time on earth was almost up, that's why he had all those meetings with Harry in HPB. He wanted to tell Harry everything he knew (or guessed) so that when he was gone, Harry would have information. Also, Snape made the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa Malfoy. He promised he would watch over Draco and if Draco couldn't complete his task he would do it. If Dumbledore knew his time was running short and knew he was dying soon he would want to save as many lives as he could in doing so. If Dumbledore wouldn't have been killed, Draco would have died for not completing his job and Snape would die because of the Unbreakable Vow. Dumbledore wouldn't want to live (especially knowing he would die soon anyways) with two good people dead because of a the task of killing him. My biggest piece of proof to this though is on pages 405 and 406 of HBP. It's a conversation between Hagrid and Harry. Here it is:

"Well -- I jus' heard Snape sayin' Dumbledore took too much fer granted an' maybe he -- Snape -- didn' wan' ter do it anymore--"
"Do what?"
"I dunno, Harry, it sounded like Snape was feelin' a bit overworked, tha's all -- anyway, Dumbledore told him flat out he'd agreed ter do it an' that was all there was to it." (HBP pgs 405 + 406 American Version)

See. In that exerpt Snape doesn't want to do something and Dumbledore is telling him he has to. I think the thing Dumbledore wants him to do is kill him. That way Voldemort still trusts Snape, and no one else gets killed. There's also another part that leads me to believe it was all planned. Right before Snape kills Dumbledore. Dumbledore says something on page 595 of HBP. Here it is:

"Severus..."
The sound frightened Harry beyond anything he had experienced all evening. For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading.
Snape said nothing, but walked forward and pushed Malfoy rougly out of the way. The three Death Eaters fell back without a word. Even the werewolf seemed cowed.
Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face.
"Severus... please..." (HBP pg 595 American Version)

You may say, "Oh. Well Dumbledore was obviously begging for his life," but before Dumbledore said anything Snape's attention wasn't even on him. He was listen to Amycus as he told him that Draco couldn't do it. Then Dumbledore had cut him off with what he said. And I thought about it, and I don't think Dumbledore was begging for his life at all. I think he was begging him to do what he wanted him to do -- kill him. Snape didn't want to do it but when he heard Dumbledore pleading, he knew he must. But then you may say, "What about the part that says "there was revulsion and hate etched in the harsh lines of his face." Well, maybe it wasn't the type of hate you would think it would be. Maybe it was hate for the cruel crime Dumbledore was making him do.

You may read this and say, "I don't care. I'll never trust Snape." I see where you're coming from. I never trusted him. But take a minute to think it over. Maybe he's not as bad as everyone thinks...
I agree. That sounds like a good theory. I actually had about the same idea. but I didn't think about the part with Dumbledore pleading. Good thinking.
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Old 05-30-2006, 02:42 AM   #103 (permalink)
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HmmM...well honestly, I will never trust Snape. Never did, never will. Even if something says he didnt kill DUmbledore, he killed Harry's parents and was a Deatheater and THOSE marks can NEVER be erased.
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Old 05-30-2006, 11:10 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Really great essay!
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Old 06-01-2006, 06:19 PM   #105 (permalink)
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I do and I don't trust Snape. I guess we will just have to wait to find out whether he is trustworthy or not when the Seventh book of Harry Potter comes out!~
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Old 06-04-2006, 09:28 AM   #106 (permalink)
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I think that Severus Snape is still a good guy (relatively speaking) and still working of the Orer of the Phoenix as an undercover agent. If he was truly on the side of evil, he would have either killed Harry or kidnapped him to take to Voldemort during the flight from Hogwarts after Dumbledore's death in HBP.

If you re-read pages 562 and 563 of HBP, Snape repeatedly deflects Harry's curses (including attempted unforgivable ones) without retaliating. Harry even provokes Snape by calling him a coward - twice - and as visibly upset as Snape gets, he still didn't retaliate. When Harry is hit by a cruciatus curse from someone else, Snape roared "no!" and intervened, saving Harry.

Snape to me seemed to be exercising extreme self control to protect Harry, when an accomplished wizard such as himself could have quite easily destroyed Harry or taken him to Voldemort - surely that would have earned him some DE brownie points. Snape does say to leave Harry as he is for the Dark Lord to finish, but doesn't take the opportunity to take the disarmed Harry with him to Voldemort - it must have been a ruse to get the other Death Eater to lay off and let Harry go and I can see no other reasonable explanation for it.

The white hot slash across Harry's face came from Buckbeak arriving and hitting out - it was not from Snape, and it was written in a deliberately ambiguous way so that the reader would assume that it was Snape who slashed Harry in anger.

Snape was trying to keep up appearances in front of his Death Eater buddies, but very deliberately let Harry go unharmed. It's a win-win for Snape - firstly, he could infiltrate the Death Eaters with the legitimacy that came with Dumbledore's staged death. And, of course, Harry lives to fight Voldemort another day.....with Snape's help.

I will be very surprised if it turns out otherwise.

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Old 06-27-2006, 10:45 AM   #107 (permalink)
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i no 4 sure that i dont trust him
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Old 06-30-2006, 06:30 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Well u have made a very good point. I like your thinking.
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Old 06-30-2006, 07:16 PM   #109 (permalink)
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I don't trust Servus Snape as far as i can spit....and my spitting talent is like zero....
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Old 07-05-2006, 04:59 PM   #110 (permalink)
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I for one do and don't trust him. I do for anomus reasons and I don't because he is really mean to all houses but his own (Slytherin).
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Old 07-14-2006, 01:24 AM   #111 (permalink)

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I don't trust Snape and i never really did , but i'm still wondering about who he really is loyal to
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:50 AM   #112 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelyLunaLovegood
I don't trust Snape and i never really did , but i'm still wondering about who he really is loyal to
I agree with you on that..I never really trust Snape and I don't think I ever would but I want to know more about him and what's his story.
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Old 08-02-2006, 09:23 AM   #113 (permalink)
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Snape's an interesting character..I still think his loyalties are ambiguous, but I hope that we see his backstory in the next book, because I'd love to see how he responded to people other than the Maurauders whilst at Hogwarts and also what drew him to the Death Eaters in the first place.
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Old 08-04-2006, 01:18 AM   #114 (permalink)

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I think Severus and Lord Voldemort might have become friendly, and that's why Voldemort trusts Snape to stay at Hogwarts. Snape might have turned spy on Voldemorts orders, and gave the Order of the Phoenix useless information. Useless to Voldemort, but not for the Order.
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Old 08-10-2006, 09:57 PM   #115 (permalink)
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This was great! Very well written & an excellent theory!

Dumbledore has always trusted Snap without a doubt. Dumbledore has information on Snape that we don't know yet which makes a big difference in the story. Dumbledore repeatedly makes clear that Snape has his full confidence. Dumbledore is not a stupid wizzard. I think he would know if Snape truely was on Voldemort's side and not the Order's.

Snape may not be completely good (and very well might have his own agenda in all of this) but he has always followed Dumbledore's order even when it seems reclutant (i.e. - The secert mission at the end of GoF, Harry's occlumecy lessons). I think this says a lot as well.

Harry hates Snape and so do most of the readers because they like Harry. Snape is not a nice person and often mean to his students but that doesn't make him evil. There is more to Snape than meets the eye. He has actually gone out of his way to save Harry many times. This is also important and often overlooked.

Snape is one of Rowling's most complex characters. I think his allegiance is to Dumbledore & the Order and we will find out why Dumbledore had trust in Snape in book 7.

Hats off to you again for your wonderful article!!!
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Old 08-15-2006, 02:32 PM   #116 (permalink)
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I think you have to trust Snape because Dumbledore trusted him. There was a plan. Dumbledore knew the poison would be tough to beat, maybe impossible. I think he had been warned by a prophecy or something of what was to come, and planned carefully to avoid breaking Snape's cover, and to keep Harry safe as long as possible. The plan is/was to destroy Voldemort I think.
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Old 08-15-2006, 02:38 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Do you remember when DD destroyed his office in lieu of being taken into custody by the MoM? He was not holding his wand. He didn't need his wand to control the situation. He knew exactly what was going to happen. There are so many avenues of speculation in these books that at times we must just accept what JKR says, "Dumbledore is never far from right". He trusted Snape, why shouldn't we?
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Old 08-25-2006, 09:24 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Snape killed DD so he could continue to spy on Death Eaters???

Nobody in the Order trusts Snape. He is the most useless spy ever.
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Old 08-26-2006, 03:06 AM   #119 (permalink)
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If Albus Dumbledore trusted him, that's good enough for me.
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Old 08-27-2006, 09:03 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Some people might like to ask, "Well, if Snape knew he had to kill Dumbledore, then why did he make the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa?" That's exactly the point. He didn't know what the task Malfoy had to perform was, so ultimately, Snape didn't know that he'd have to kill Dumbledore.
Yet, at the moment before Snape does kill Dumbledore, it is written that Snape looked at Dumbledore with "revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face." (pg. 595-US) And it's common knowledge that in order to perform any of the Unforgivable Curses, one must be full of true anger towards the person the curse is performed on.
So, I'm at a draw with myself, lol.
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:59 PM   #121 (permalink)
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Everyone seems to no longer trust snape but it seems as though most people want to i think in the end snape may get what he deserves Good Or Bad...
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Old 09-19-2006, 03:23 AM   #122 (permalink)

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I never used to trust him, or, that is I used to be unsure of whether or not I trust him. Now, I feel that I trust whoever Dumbledore trusted.
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Old 09-21-2006, 07:57 AM   #123 (permalink)
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Uuh... I dunno... I just think that Severus has a close relationship with Lucius... But I think Severus had met Voldemort face to face to know the information, not only from Lucius...
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Old 11-19-2006, 11:20 AM   #124 (permalink)
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Honestly. I never used to trust Snape. I thought he was just some terrible guy that Dumbledore was stupid to trust. But then I looked over all the information in the books (especially the sixth) that point to the fact that Snape is really a good guy. Think about it. It makes so much sense to believe that Dumbledore's death was planned. Dumbledore knew he wasn't going to live much longer. He knew that his time on earth was almost up, that's why he had all those meetings with Harry in HPB. He wanted to tell Harry everything he knew (or guessed) so that when he was gone, Harry would have information. Also, Snape made the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa Malfoy. He promised he would watch over Draco and if Draco couldn't complete his task he would do it. If Dumbledore knew his time was running short and knew he was dying soon he would want to save as many lives as he could in doing so. If Dumbledore wouldn't have been killed, Draco would have died for not completing his job and Snape would die because of the Unbreakable Vow. Dumbledore wouldn't want to live (especially knowing he would die soon anyways) with two good people dead because of a the task of killing him. My biggest piece of proof to this though is on pages 405 and 406 of HBP. It's a conversation between Hagrid and Harry. Here it is:<