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| | The Deathly Hallows The final year of the Harry Potter series - will good triumph over evil? | Have a very Harry day!!
08-03-2007, 04:25 AM
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#1 (permalink)
| Book 7 Theorist Chizpurfle
Location: Wyoming Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 699
| The Twisted Ending... After finishing Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows I, at first, felt satisfied with the ending. However, after letting all the information settle I came up with a very important question.
As you all know by now, Voldemort unintentionally made Harry a Horcrux the night he tried to kill him (something I had suspected). Also, Voldemort was made into a Horcrux for Harry when he used Harry's blood to achieve his rebirth in the Goblet of Fire.
In order to make a Horcrux one must split their soul by committing an act of pure evil. Obviously Voldemort had done this the night he tried to kill Harry, so that unintentional Horcrux makes perfect sense to me. However, what about Harry's Horcrux? Harry committed no act of evil that night in the graveyard, so then how was his soul split?
My theory on this is that Voldemort created the Horcrux for Harry, since killing Cedric and then using Harry's blood for his rebirth were both acts of pure evil. Then by using Harry's blood in his own body he had placed a piece of Harry's soul inside himself.
What are your thought? Did you all find this hard to follow/figure out? |
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08-09-2007, 04:23 PM
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#2 (permalink)
| | Chizpurfle
Location: Southern NJ Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 717
| The story was somewhat confusing. There were a lot of things going on at the end there. The end brought in the horcruxes, Lily's scarfice, the Deathly Hallows, all of which were needed for Harry to win.
But, Harry didn't need to make a horcrux to live and he never created one.
Voldemort killed Harry and the horcrux inside of his scar at the end of Chapter 34. Because Harry allowed Voldemort to kill him, without fight back, Voldemort destroyed the part of his soul that was in Harry scar. Leaving Harry's soul whole and his own. Dumbledore explains this in Chapter 35 - Page 708 - US edition.
Harry can live only while Voldemort lives not because of a horcrux but because of Harry's blood and Lily's magical protection.
Voldemort used Harry's blood to create his living body. Harry's blood with Lily's protection is inside both Voldemort and Harry. Using Harry's blood was a mistake. Voldemort's body keeps Lily's protection alive thus keeping Harry alive. Voldemort instead of destroying the bond he shared with Harry the night he regained his body in GOF, Voldemort doubled that bond when he returned to human form. Bond one was the horcrux scar, bond two is the love protection Lily left behind. The horcrux scar was destroyed but Lily's bond is still there!
Now, when Harry willingly died to save all of those he loved at the end of Chapter 34 TWO importanted things happened other than the scar horcrux being destroyed. ONE: Harry created his own - "new" blood protection. That is why none of the DE's or Voldemort's spells could hold against those people who continued to fight against Voldemort & the DE's whenr Hagrid brought back Harry's believed-to-be dead body from the forrest (Chapter 36). Harry explains this to Voldemort in Chapter 36 - page 738 to 743- US edition. TWO: Harry became Master of the Elder wand and Master of the Deathly Hallows. Basiclly, Voldie not "really" killing Harry allowed this to happen. Voldemort failed to master Dumbledore's wand (really the Elder Wand) thus leaving Harry as the true master of the Elder Wand.
After Harry dies and visits King's Cross this is where the story shifts and Horcruxes become less important and Hallows take the center stadge! Harry became Master of Death when he willingly allowed Voldemort to kill!
Harry was the only person (the one in a million according to Dumbledore) that was able to reunite the Deathly Hallows (the stone, the cloak and the wand) and become their true master.
Why? Because Harry didn't want to use their power for himself - to save himself - or to gain power like Voldemort but more importantly because the true master of death does not run away from Death but accepts it.
Harry was then given the choice - to say dead or to come back. Harry came because of the blood protection but was armed with the "power the Dark Lord knows not" - knowledge and truth! That is how Harry was able to survive without a horcux and defeat Voldemort.
Eventhough Harry did not have the Elder wand in his hand Harry was true master of the Elder Wand because he disarmed the wand's last owner - Draco. Harry had disarmed Draco and took his wand weeks ago. Draco was the master of Dumbledore's wand (the Elder Wand) because Draco took the wand from Dumbledore in HBP and planed to kill Dumbledore. That was when Snape killed Dumbledore instead. Snape could never be master of the wand because Dumbledore planned for Snape to kill him. This was another mistake Voldemort made. He thought Snape was the wand's Master and that is why he killed him. Voldemort didn't realize that just holding a wand isn't enough - the wand chooses the wizard. Dumbledore's wand (the Elder wand) reconginzed Draco as it's master NOT Snape.
Harry was able to gain control of the the Elder Wand because he had Draco's wand. The Elder Wand chose Harry over Voldemort when they both issued their commands on page 743 of Chapter 36. That is why the Elder did Harry's spell and Voldemort's spell was turned back at him.
Harry survived in the end because of
1) the accidental horcrux scar;
2) his mother's protection
3) his knowlege of the Deathly Hallows
It's still confusing (I have no idea how this will work for the film and not be) but I hope this helps!
Last edited by carola9146 : 08-09-2007 at 04:29 PM.
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08-20-2007, 01:50 PM
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#3 (permalink)
| | Kappa
Location: underground Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,027
Hogwarts RPG Name: Audrey Clark Second | Nice explanation carola. I vaguely understood everything, but that helped clear it up
One of my friends, after reading the book, was like "I don't even know why she chose that name for the book. Like, the DH didn't even have any significance really..."
X___x |
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08-26-2007, 10:59 PM
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#4 (permalink)
| Evanna's PA DAFC Graphics Officer DA Wand Cleaner Skrewt
Location: Avie by me Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,428
Ministry RPG Name:
Mikayla (Kayla) Accidents & Catastrophes |  wow i just read you explanation carola9146 and considering i get confued easily, it made total sense to me, you explained it perfectly, thanks  |
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08-31-2007, 02:28 AM
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#5 (permalink)
| | Puffskein
Location: Not real sure Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 166
Hogwarts RPG Name: Isabeaux Sedona Craft Second | I think that was a great explanation Carola 9146. I do not believe Voldemort became a Horcrux for Harry. I believe that what Voldemort killed was that part of him that was Voldemort's soul. Because he willingly went to his death for love, just as his mother did, then Voldemort did not harm Harry's soul, he destroyed his own horcrux, that was the scar. I know that Dumbledore knew this when he tells Snape that Harry is a horcrux and must die. I know he knew Harry would not die, but Voldemort would destroy his own horcrux. Had Snape forced Harry to come to Voldemort it would not have worked out the same. Harry had to enter into his own death willingly and for love for that curse to not harm him. Just as his own mother had done for him 16 years earlier. In the end, love destroyed Voldemort, the one power that Harry had and that he would never understand or have.
The Hallows are completely important. As Harry already possesed one of the Hallows, and that Voldemort did not even recognize one, that you know he would never be master of any of them. Harry was destined to be master of them all in the end, and by being master of them all, and destroying the horcruxes, he destroys Voldemort.
As I said, very good explanation given by Carola 9146 |
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10-22-2007, 02:30 PM
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#6 (permalink)
| | Bundimun
Location: In your dreams Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 34
Hogwarts RPG Name: Travis Prince First | Good points and theories everyone. i have a question though. When Voldemort attempted to kill Harry again, and he ended up at Kings Cross station with Dumbledore, there was some kind of wimpering creature there. Dumbledore sadid it couldn't be helped. What was it? What is everyone's theory on this? |
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11-07-2007, 01:02 PM
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#7 (permalink)
| | Hippocampus
Location: Lincoln (England) Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 275
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Prince Good points and theories everyone. i have a question though. When Voldemort attempted to kill Harry again, and he ended up at Kings Cross station with Dumbledore, there was some kind of wimpering creature there. Dumbledore sadid it couldn't be helped. What was it? What is everyone's theory on this? | i think it might be part of voldemort, the description of it reminds me of the description given in GoF when voldemort didn't have a body, when harry 'died' the part of voldemort in him had to have died also |
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11-13-2007, 02:08 AM
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#8 (permalink)
| | Flobberworm
Location: the seventh floor corridor with the tapestry of Barnabas the Barmy Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 14
Hogwarts RPG Name: unsorted | It was the fragment of Voldemort's soul that was embedded in Harry when he went to kill the Potters. Otherwise, why would Harry say "Try for some remorse, Riddle..." and "It's your one last chance. It's all you've got left...I've seen what you'll be otherwise"? I think that he was referring to the whimpering creature. Besides...Harry created basically that entire scene in his mind. Why would he create something like that unless it arrived with him? |
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01-14-2008, 10:39 PM
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#9 (permalink)
| | Ghoul
Location: up your butt XD Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 575
Hogwarts RPG Name: Luke Winters Sixth Year | ^ I agree with this dude...er girl...whatever you are. I'm still confused, but it makes sense as well does carola's. |
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02-19-2008, 08:24 PM
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#10 (permalink)
| RFFC PresidentDTFC Promotions Officer Chizpurfle
Location: uk Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 734
Hogwarts RPG Name: Najini First | At first, when I read the book, I had your idea. but now I think Jo has finished her stories in the best form. She tried to do something to lock her own stories forever. I mean, there will be no one after her to continue Harry Potter stories. |
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03-11-2008, 01:45 AM
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#11 (permalink)
| | Doxy
Location: Blacksburg *I wish* Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 405
Hogwarts RPG Name: Amy Third | I don't think that Harry had a horcrux, I think he was one of Voldy's. Like, it wasn't his soul that split, but Voldemort's, and it clung to Harry for unknown reasons. |
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03-16-2008, 09:12 PM
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#12 (permalink)
| DA News OfficerKeeper of the RoR Bowtruckle
Location: Markham, Ontario Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 260
Hogwarts RPG Name: Michael Cutler First Ministry RPG Name:
David Ben Tills Magical Games & Sports | Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Prince When Voldemort attempted to kill Harry again, and he ended up at Kings Cross station with Dumbledore, there was some kind of wimpering creature there. Dumbledore sadid it couldn't be helped. What was it? What is everyone's theory on this? | The only explanation is that it was the last remaining piece of soul a.k.a. the soul in Voldemort. It couldn't have been the piece inside Harry because that was destroyed (or killed) when Harry was hit by Voldemort's curse. Also when Harry comes to, it seems that Voldemort had also passed out or have been in tremendous pain because all the death eaters were around him and they sounded worried. For my last argument I give a quote, said by Harry, from when he and voldemort where in there final battle:
"It's your one last chance, it's all you've got left... I've seen what you'll be otherwise... be a man... try... try for some remorse..."
Now there are two hints here.
The first is "I've seen what you'll be otherwise..." This tells us that Harry has already seen what Harry will be because it is in the past tense. Also, if Voldemort doesn't repent Harry will kill him, therefore when Harry says this speech he knows that the only thing Voldemort will "be" is a soul going "on" (as dumbledore puts it) and since the connection between Harry and Voldemort is through souls it is highly likely that the thing Harry sees at kings cross is the visual representation of voldemorts soul.
The second is "be a man..." This tells us that Harry knows that voldemort is just a naive little boy on the inside (or as a soul). It is also no coincidence that the thing at kings cross is also a child.
Also when dumbledore tells Harry that they cannot help the thing he is giving Harry a subtle hint that he can help voldemort in the real world just not in this place. Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermione-is-the-best I don't think that Harry had a horcrux, I think he was one of Voldy's. Like, it wasn't his soul that split, but Voldemort's, and it clung to Harry for unknown reasons. | I think that the reason is that the piece of soul that was inside Harry wasn't completely severed from the soul inside Voldemort (the connection is the connection between Harry and Voldemort) and for this reason the piece inside Harry pulled the soul inside Voldemort into Harry's mind just before it was destroyed.
Last edited by MC Hammer : 03-16-2008 at 09:21 PM.
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