SnitchSeeker.com - View Single Post

She-Who-Is-Not-To-Be-Psycho! · 07-11-2005, 09:35 PM

Who trusts Severus Snape?
By She-Who-Is-Not-To-Be-Psycho!
20 / Rosario, Argentina

Dumbledore trusts for Snape is one of the things we have made the most speculations. I have another question for you, however; why would Voldemort so easily trust him?

Why, Snape -seemly- deserted the Dead Eaters. In the reviving ceremony, Voldemort talks of the people who aren’t there that night; "six missing Death Eaters… three dead in my service. One, too cowardly to return... he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever... he will be killed, of course... and one, who remains my most faithful servant -"(GF33, p565). Of course, not counting those imprisoned, the last was Crouch Jr while the other two were Snape and Karkaroff (“Why do you think Karkaroff fled tonight? We both felt the Mark burn.”- Snape, GF36, p616). But who's who?

We pretty much know Snape was NOT in the reviving ceremony alright. So let's move from there.

Surely by the description 'cowardly' we think of Karkaroff immediately, hence labeling Snape as the one to be killed. But isn't it curious? OotP and Snape is still working as a spy, still seems to be in touch with the Death Eaters (he tells Sirius L.Malfoy recognized him as a dog OP24) and pretty much alive! *massive gasp* How and why? Did Voldyshorts change his mind on the killing part maybe? Has he forgiven him? Or should we believe Snape is the coward one and only got a fair session of Crucio to make up for his offence? And Dumbledore just allowed it?

"Severus," said Dumbledore, turning to Snape, "you know what I must ask you to do. If you are ready ... if you are prepared ...""I am," said Snape.
He looked slightly paler than usual, and his cold, black eyes glittered strangely. (GF 36, p619)

I find it funny that Snape, from the point of view that he was forgiven, could get away with it and gained the trust just as immediately. Dumbledore defended him publicly during Karkaroff's trial in the 1980s by revealing that Snape had been a spy. Just think, again into this inner circle this easily! Now, I want to point out that in the many visions Harry saw, not once, he saw Snape facing Voldemort as one would expect when receiving his 'punishing'(a way or another he was getting punished, no doubt). Could Voldemort back out from his previous threat? I myself am a bit skeptic.

My best guess is that Severus Snape never again had direct contact with Voldemort.

To put it clearer: Severus would not need to speak to Voldemort, if he had an indirect source to get the information. Yes, an informant of an informant. And the secondary informant, I must say, can only be Lucius Malfoy.

Now, it’s not uncommon in fanfiction to suppose Snape and Lucius are some kind of best friends since school, hence Snape treating Draco better than any other students (uncle Sev anyone?) I would dare say that guess might not be completely incorrect, as we spot Snape’s reaction to when Harry accused Lucius Malfoy of being a Death Eater:

“I saw the Death Eaters! I can give you their names! Lucius Malfoy –”Snape made a sudden movement, but as Harry looked at him, Snape’s eyes flew back to Fudge. (GF36, p613)

Sirius had said "Snape knew more curses when he arrived at school than half the kids in the seventh year and he was part of a gang of Slytherins who nearly all turned out to be Death Eaters" (GF25, p460-461). This gang might have included Lucius. (Lucius would be a seventh year when Snape was at his first, though.)

Lucius has spoken well of Snape many times. Umbridge said of him when Snape was unhelpful with Veritaserum, “I expected better, Lucius Malfoy always speaks most highly of you!" (OP 32). Draco also has a good opinion of him: "Sir, why don't you apply for the headmaster's job? … I expect you'd have Father's vote, sir, if you wanted to apply for the job. I'll tell father you're the best teacher here, sir…” (CS15)

Plus, you will find all type of information Snape is getting seemed to be related to Malfoy:

"Tell me, how is Lucius Malfoy these days?" I expect he's delighted his lapdog's working at Hogwarts, isn't he?""Speaking of dogs," said Snape softly, "did you know that Lucius Malfoy recognized you last time you risked a little jaunt outside? Clever idea, Black, getting yourself seen on a safe station platform... gave you a cast-iron excuse not to leave your hidey-hole in future, didn't it?" (OP 24)

Actually, from the moment Sirius’ words labels Snape as Lucius Malfoy’s lapdog, it appear quite certain to me it’s probably Lucius Snape is spying upon and not Voldemort directly. The leak in information is, once more, the Malfoys(*see following).

The question is, how much does Lucius Malfoy knows? He sure seems to trust Snape despite his desertion. With no doubts or hesitation in his mind? Putting aside Severus Snape’s intentions, what is Lucius Malfoy thinking opening his doors to Snape?

One guess is that Lucius doesn’t know about Snape’s desertion and that he is the one to be killed or punished, in Voldemort’s words. Other is that he dumbly thinks Snape has been forgiven by the Dark Lord. I, however, would give Lucius and Lord Voldemort both more credit. I do believe Lucius knows Snape is a traitor (maybe not a spy, though).

If Lucius knows about his betrayal, then why is he helping him? Now, I’m not about to say Lucius is really this good guy in disguise. It’s pretty obvious he holds no restrictions against cold-blooded murdering a boy the same age his son’s. And obviously despises muggles and half-bloods, not needing the Dark Lord for an excuse to have fun with them (GF10). But this and Draco’s behavior might make us have doubts about the authenticity of their loyalty to Voldemort.

Put it this way. Draco had already hinted to Harry he had spotted Sirius (“I’ll be dogging your footsteps” –OP10, p194) even before Harry heard it from Snape, from Lucius Malfoy. It was Draco the one letting them know Hermione should run away from the DE at the world cup because they were after muggles and ‘mudbloods’ (GF9, p110), instead of joining his father or sending Hermione into a trap.

'Maybe,' said Malfoy in an undertone, so that only Harry could hear him, 'the stupid great oaf's got himself badly injured.''Maybe you will if you don't shut up,' said Harry out of the side of his mouth.
'Maybe he's been messing with stuff that's too big for him, if you get my drift.' (OP13, p259-260)

Again, not about to say those two are good guys but rather to bring up that the Malfoys might have hidden intentions behind their actions. Either too stupid, too tongue-slippery with their teases and don’t know when to shut up, or the hidden intention scenario.

Plus there is the fact that Lucius Malfoy was never condemned in his prosecution. Why? Apart from his well-stationed position in the Ministry, what ingenious excuse did he make up to avoid Azkaban? “…he'd never meant any of it" (CS3, p27) it was. Hardly enough. I would presume that’s not even half his excuse, and his excuse might be related to this unfelt royalty towards the Dark Lord.

So up to now, this is what we have. No real answers but various speculations. I would dare say, no, Voldemort does not trust Snape. Even as much as he can relay on his Legillimence skills, Voldemort has more sense than relying on his power alone. Only that is not enough to forgive Snape and we know Voldemort to be more revengeful than that. Dumbledore trusts Snape, so he must at least trust that the information he gets from Lucius Malfoy as well. All that’s left to know is what the reasons behind Snape and Lucius both are, or if Snape is tricking Lucius in a way we hardly suspect. But I would bet my pre-ordered copy of the HBP Snape and Lucius have a bond.

07-11-2005, 09:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
She-Who-Is-Not-To-Be-Psycho! Reality Police Official -()- Seeker Conspiracy Theorist Phoenix Location: The world's bottom! Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 15,271	Who trusts Severus Snape? Who trusts Severus Snape? By She-Who-Is-Not-To-Be-Psycho! 20 / Rosario, Argentina Dumbledore trusts for Snape is one of the things we have made the most speculations. I have another question for you, however; why would Voldemort so easily trust him? Why, Snape -seemly- deserted the Dead Eaters. In the reviving ceremony, Voldemort talks of the people who aren’t there that night; "six missing Death Eaters… three dead in my service. One, too cowardly to return... he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever... he will be killed, of course... and one, who remains my most faithful servant -"(GF33, p565). Of course, not counting those imprisoned, the last was Crouch Jr while the other two were Snape and Karkaroff (“Why do you think Karkaroff fled tonight? We both felt the Mark burn.”- Snape, GF36, p616). But who's who? We pretty much know Snape was NOT in the reviving ceremony alright. So let's move from there. Surely by the description 'cowardly' we think of Karkaroff immediately, hence labeling Snape as the one to be killed. But isn't it curious? OotP and Snape is still working as a spy, still seems to be in touch with the Death Eaters (he tells Sirius L.Malfoy recognized him as a dog OP24) and pretty much alive! massive gasp How and why? Did Voldyshorts change his mind on the killing part maybe? Has he forgiven him? Or should we believe Snape is the coward one and only got a fair session of Crucio to make up for his offence? And Dumbledore just allowed it? "Severus," said Dumbledore, turning to Snape, "you know what I must ask you to do. If you are ready ... if you are prepared ...""I am," said Snape. He looked slightly paler than usual, and his cold, black eyes glittered strangely. (GF 36, p619) I find it funny that Snape, from the point of view that he was forgiven, could get away with it and gained the trust just as immediately. Dumbledore defended him publicly during Karkaroff's trial in the 1980s by revealing that Snape had been a spy. Just think, again into this inner circle this easily! Now, I want to point out that in the many visions Harry saw, not once, he saw Snape facing Voldemort as one would expect when receiving his 'punishing'(a way or another he was getting punished, no doubt). Could Voldemort back out from his previous threat? I myself am a bit skeptic. My best guess is that Severus Snape never again had direct contact with Voldemort. To put it clearer: Severus would not need to speak to Voldemort, if he had an indirect source to get the information. Yes, an informant of an informant. And the secondary informant, I must say, can only be Lucius Malfoy. Now, it’s not uncommon in fanfiction to suppose Snape and Lucius are some kind of best friends since school, hence Snape treating Draco better than any other students (uncle Sev anyone?) I would dare say that guess might not be completely incorrect, as we spot Snape’s reaction to when Harry accused Lucius Malfoy of being a Death Eater: “I saw the Death Eaters! I can give you their names! Lucius Malfoy –”Snape made a sudden movement, but as Harry looked at him, Snape’s eyes flew back to Fudge. (GF36, p613) Sirius had said "Snape knew more curses when he arrived at school than half the kids in the seventh year and he was part of a gang of Slytherins who nearly all turned out to be Death Eaters" (GF25, p460-461). This gang might have included Lucius. (Lucius would be a seventh year when Snape was at his first, though.) Lucius has spoken well of Snape many times. Umbridge said of him when Snape was unhelpful with Veritaserum, “I expected better, Lucius Malfoy always speaks most highly of you!" (OP 32). Draco also has a good opinion of him: "Sir, why don't you apply for the headmaster's job? … I expect you'd have Father's vote, sir, if you wanted to apply for the job. I'll tell father you're the best teacher here, sir…” (CS15) Plus, you will find all type of information Snape is getting seemed to be related to Malfoy: "Tell me, how is Lucius Malfoy these days?" I expect he's delighted his lapdog's working at Hogwarts, isn't he?""Speaking of dogs," said Snape softly, "did you know that Lucius Malfoy recognized you last time you risked a little jaunt outside? Clever idea, Black, getting yourself seen on a safe station platform... gave you a cast-iron excuse not to leave your hidey-hole in future, didn't it?" (OP 24) Actually, from the moment Sirius’ words labels Snape as Lucius Malfoy’s lapdog, it appear quite certain to me it’s probably Lucius Snape is spying upon and not Voldemort directly. The leak in information is, once more, the Malfoys(see following). The question is, how much does Lucius Malfoy knows? He sure seems to trust Snape despite his desertion. With no doubts or hesitation in his mind? Putting aside Severus Snape’s intentions, what is Lucius Malfoy thinking opening his doors to Snape? One guess is that Lucius doesn’t know about Snape’s desertion and that he is the one to be killed or punished, in Voldemort’s words. Other is that he dumbly thinks Snape has been forgiven by the Dark Lord. I, however, would give Lucius and Lord Voldemort both more credit. I do believe Lucius knows Snape is a traitor (maybe not a spy, though). If Lucius knows about his betrayal, then why is he helping him? Now, I’m not about to say Lucius is really this good guy in disguise. It’s pretty obvious he holds no restrictions against cold-blooded murdering a boy the same age his son’s. And obviously despises muggles and half-bloods, not needing the Dark Lord for an excuse to have fun* with them (GF10). But this and Draco’s behavior might make us have doubts about the authenticity of their loyalty to Voldemort. Put it this way. Draco had already hinted to Harry he had spotted Sirius (“I’ll be dogging your footsteps” –OP10, p194) even before Harry heard it from Snape, from Lucius Malfoy. It was Draco the one letting them know Hermione should run away from the DE at the world cup because they were after muggles and ‘mudbloods’ (GF9, p110), instead of joining his father or sending Hermione into a trap. 'Maybe,' said Malfoy in an undertone, so that only Harry could hear him, 'the stupid great oaf's got himself badly injured.''Maybe you will if you don't shut up,' said Harry out of the side of his mouth. 'Maybe he's been messing with stuff that's too big for him, if you get my drift.' (OP13, p259-260) Again, not about to say those two are good guys but rather to bring up that the Malfoys might have hidden intentions behind their actions. Either too stupid, too tongue-slippery with their teases and don’t know when to shut up, or the hidden intention scenario. Plus there is the fact that Lucius Malfoy was never condemned in his prosecution. Why? Apart from his well-stationed position in the Ministry, what ingenious excuse did he make up to avoid Azkaban? “…he'd never meant any of it" (CS3, p27) it was. Hardly enough. I would presume that’s not even half his excuse, and his excuse might be related to this unfelt royalty towards the Dark Lord. So up to now, this is what we have. No real answers but various speculations. I would dare say, no, Voldemort does not trust Snape. Even as much as he can relay on his Legillimence skills, Voldemort has more sense than relying on his power alone. Only that is not enough to forgive Snape and we know Voldemort to be more revengeful than that. Dumbledore trusts Snape, so he must at least trust that the information he gets from Lucius Malfoy as well. All that’s left to know is what the reasons behind Snape and Lucius both are, or if Snape is tricking Lucius in a way we hardly suspect. But I would bet my pre-ordered copy of the HBP Snape and Lucius have a bond. Last edited by She-Who-Is-Not-To-Be-Psycho! : 07-11-2005 at 10:48 PM.